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  #46  
Old 05-24-2011, 02:11 AM
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Hofmeister kink anyone?
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  #47  
Old 05-24-2011, 02:17 AM
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Originally Posted by henk4 View Post
Surprisingly the 2000CS at Villa d'Este won its class. I can remember that when the car appeared on the scene, the front part was not to everybody's liking. but the roof line set a tone. (that was actually taken from the 3200CS)
That's remarkable since it was reviled by most styling critics in the day. Beuher's 1968 synopsis of the 2800CS was quite pointed, and he was right... the new E9 was more attractive and usable. I've owned two 2000CS's and always like the look even while wishing for more power. Even fantasized about swapping an S14 in and building an 2000CSL with all the bodywork. Drew plans up that wisely were abandoned with regard to bank accounts.

But IMHO everything in BMW's modern era is Bangle's fault. Still, I agree... though the E30 wasn't elegant it did everything right... and though the gradual loss of beautiful lines was painful to witness I do have a soft spot for 6er's and 7's up to the '90s. Mercedes followed the same inexplicable path.
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  #48  
Old 05-24-2011, 02:34 AM
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Hofmeister kink anyone?
did Hofmeister work for Bertone????
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  #49  
Old 05-24-2011, 02:41 AM
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Apparently so.

I know, I'm wrong.

Again.
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  #50  
Old 05-24-2011, 03:32 AM
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Originally Posted by csl177 View Post
But IMHO everything in BMW's modern era is Bangle's fault. Still, I agree... though the E30 wasn't elegant it did everything right... and though the gradual loss of beautiful lines was painful to witness I do have a soft spot for 6er's and 7's up to the '90s. Mercedes followed the same inexplicable path.
I guess I'll get shot once again for this, but I don't think that the future will judge Bangle's designs as hard as we do. They will probably become future classics someday. I mean, there was a time when I thought all the 80's designs were completely ugly, but over the years, my opinion has completely changed. We can hate Bangle as much as we want, but he injected some fresh ideas (that CAN look good if used right). The automotive world would be less interesting without his influence.
Well, if that statement isn't a suicide attempt, I don't know what .

Another thing is that elegance isn't the ost important thing in the automotive world. The E30 worke, like you said, because it emphasized other values. Many of BMW's 80's design expressed strength and techniacl perfection with their design. They weren't elegant, but expressed pure power.
But I really don't want BMW to do the same thing over and over again. Their experiments may not always lead to totally beautiful cars, but at least they aren't just following the herd as others do. For this, BMW has my respect.
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  #51  
Old 05-24-2011, 04:06 AM
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IMO BMW's concepts are historically some of the worst looking beasts to ever roll....ditto for this one.
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  #52  
Old 05-24-2011, 04:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Commodore GS/E View Post
I mean, there was a time when I thought all the 80's designs were completely ugly, but over the years, my opinion has completely changed.
Still 80's cars plus points are not to be found in the styling, even if some can look good like the Mazda MX-5.
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Old 05-24-2011, 05:54 AM
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There was also the Mille Miglia Concept Coupe, for a more.. blatant.. homage.
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  #54  
Old 05-24-2011, 06:55 AM
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Still 80's cars plus points are not to be found in the styling, even if some can look good like the Mazda MX-5.
I like the functional styling of the 80's . Cars like the E30 M3, the Mercedes 190 Evo or the Audi Quattro Sport may not be conventional beautys, but their "in your face" race-insoired styling is cool in it's own way.
But i think we have had this design ages discussion earlier, and I don't want to start it all over again.
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  #55  
Old 05-25-2011, 02:00 AM
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I didn't want to jump into the hate wagon, it seams to be the new order these days, to hate a BMW design, but dammit! I wanted to like it, but it just reminds me of a naked mole rat.
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  #56  
Old 05-25-2011, 05:45 AM
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Embodying that aesthetic, understood... but please explain how this is gorgeous even if you have to use cyberpunk language. I grok.
A similar design explanation of how the Z8 is overly literal, gorgeous, too coke bottle and elitist but inelegant would be appreciated.
There are several contradictory declarations in that sentence.

Aside from two design cues (stretched grille and side vents) there's thankfully no obvious retro in the Z8. Proportionally it was similar,
but expected given it's mechanical layout. A modern classic that due to design and limited production of 2400 +/- (IIRC), as Rob notes
has retained value unlike any of it's competitors. Or any other BMW from that period.
I shall respond by first clarifying my position on the Z8. It's gorgeous, but overly retro. And by elitist I mean attempted exclusivity. The Z8 was a folly that I can only guess was born of someones desire for a bigger, more expensive Z3. There, I said it.

The Z8 was retro to a fault. The rounded arches, proportions, overhangs, steering wheel, central instrument binnacle, materials...

In terms of Gorgeousness, the 328 utlises technology and materiality to great effect. The sharp creases and layered grille effect are amongst my two favourite parts. It's not classically beautiful, but it's thoroughly interesting, texturally if nothing else, and embodies that spirit of technology, speed and lightness.
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