2009 24 Hours of Le Mans, LMS and ALMS news

[henk4]

Which tells you everything you need to know about the legitimacy of their complaints. I think some complaints from teams is pretty normal, but to force audi to change every year like this is pretty unfair to them. Their car originally met the rules in good faith and has passed scrutineering, so why not allow it?

more rules are changed than one in between design periods. Peugeot apparently has an engine advantage, and the additional diesel restrictor reduction for 2010 means that their relative advantage will be shrinking.
The "loopholes" used in the Audi design have been a constant source for discussion ever since the R15 showed up. Better to have that clarified once and forever.

[wwgkd]

more rules are changed than one in between design periods. Peugeot apparently has an engine advantage, and the additional diesel restrictor reduction for 2010 means that their relative advantage will be shrinking.
The "loopholes" used in the Audi design have been a constant source for discussion ever since the R15 showed up. Better to have that clarified once and forever.

True. But Peugeot has to do some minor changes to their engine, and Audi has to make an entirely new car. I would say clarify it for the future but don't kill the car. It's not like it was a supremely dominant design (or even close to past audi designs,) so I don't see the need to effectively ban the car on this timeline.

[henk4]

True. But Peugeot has to do some minor changes to their engine, and Audi has to make an entirely new car. I would say clarify it for the future but don't kill the car. It's not like it was a supremely dominant design (or even close to past audi designs,) so I don't see the need to effectively ban the car on this timeline.

this is how things blow up. ACO has not said it will ban the car. Audi has threatened to withdraw if they will ban the car. The way you formulate it now is that a ban is imminent. So the Audi spin has worked for you

[Wouter Melissen]

The rule changes will render the R15 and its aero-philosophy illegal, so it is effectively a ban of the car.

[Chernaudi]

According to Mike Fuller, even with the proposed rules change, the basic concept of the R15 is still entirely legal, but the details are different. The proposed rule was that any symmetrical or non-symmetrical wing element should have a trailing edge thickness that's a certian percentage of the max chord thickness.

Also, it's worth noting that Audi isn't the only ones effected-Oreca's new car is, so is the Porsche RS Spyder, and even the Peugeot 908(which uses wing shaped tuning vanes mounted inboard of the front fenders).

The ACO and IMSA have agreed to not enforce the proposed 2010 rules as far as the rear fender bodywork covers for cars that were built on or before 1/1/2010, especially for teams or manufactures that submit a waiver postmarked on or before 10/30/09.

Basically, the ACO said that it wanted to save teams some money, but pundits called BS on the proposed areo regs that seem to have been meant for '10 only, and the ACO had to shut the pundits up and appease them. And since this is still being debated appearantly, Audi hasn't made definite plans as of yet. But what Audi has on their side is the ACO's recent ruling, and the fact that, among others, Oreca, Acura, Porsche and about everyone else(including Peugeot) have examples of the wing elements on their cars that are in question.

So over that and the deal with the Pugs' doors, Peugeot is calling the kettle black, and so is the ACO over the cost reduction deals(and Mike has said the same on both counts as well).

[henk4]

so with if the words of Fuller are correct, and they mostly are, we are back to where the discussion started, i.e. Audi putting some pressure ("blackmail") on the ACO by threatening to quit.

[Wouter Melissen]

so with if the words of Fuller are correct, and they mostly are, we are back to where the discussion started, i.e. Audi putting some pressure ("blackmail") on the ACO by threatening to quit.

No they are not blackmailing anyone. The drastic rule changes, originally suggested by the ACO, would render their car useless for next year. They were right to point that out as it would make no sense at all to completely redesign the R15 for 2010 and then be faced with another set of rules altogether in 2011. It seems a compromise has been found, which allows Audi to run the R15 next year.

[Chernaudi]

But then again, it's rumored that Audi may do a schedule similar to this year unless Dr. Ullrich can convince the Audi board to bring the sportscar budget to where it was proposed to be at the end of the '08 ALMS season.

And it seemed that Audi wanted to run the full ALMS season next year, but that's also where convincing the board for next year comes in(merging of LMP1/2-what's the difference compared to '08, where Audi pretty much dominated the ALMS, I ask)-the R15 was the first car that Audi designed since the later versions of the R8 that was intended to be full adaptable to the ALMS.

Either way, it seems that the R15 may be just a big waste of money.

[henk4]

But then again, it's rumored that Audi may do a schedule similar to this year unless Dr. Ullrich can convince the Audi board to bring the sportscar budget to where it was proposed to be at the end of the '08 ALMS season.

And it seemed that Audi wanted to run the full ALMS season next year, but that's also where convincing the board for next year comes in(merging of LMP1/2-what's the difference compared to '08, where Audi pretty much dominated the ALMS, I ask)-the R15 was the first car that Audi designed since the later versions of the R8 that was intended to be full adaptable to the ALMS.

Either way, it seems that the R15 may be just a big waste of money.

They may still find DTM more attractive, and put some more effort in their customer racing programme with the R8.

[Chernaudi]

Yeah, a racing series that has the relevance to road cars that NASCAR has(DTM), and neither has any notable coverage here in the US-the biggest market for Audi(though the ALMS has crap coverage compared to NASCAR, anyways).

[RacingManiac]

According to Mike Fuller, even with the proposed rules change, the basic concept of the R15 is still entirely legal, but the details are different. The proposed rule was that any symmetrical or non-symmetrical wing element should have a trailing edge thickness that's a certian percentage of the max chord thickness.

Legal but no longer should give them an advantage. Effectively all the little flaps and "front wing" will need a big wide trailing edge, which makes the downforce draggy, and probably messes around with the "internal flow" of the R15...its a big blow to have a car designed in the last 2 years and then the ACO tells you its no good....

Audi also didn't dominate 07/08 season overall...both year the RS Spyder were faster....

[Chernaudi]

Winning 3/4 of the races in '08 isn't dominance? And if not for fuel mileage gambles by Penske in '07 Audi would've won at least as many.

[Dino Scuderia]

New 2010 F430 GT2 bodywork shown. This is what the teams have to work with until the 458 comes in 2011. New flared fenders at the rear to house wider tires...and the new nose which was used at PLM.

Zoom sur… la Ferrari F430 T-car 2010 !

[henk4]

so 100 kg more and larger restrictors, higher speed and less agility.

[Dino Scuderia]

so 100 kg more and larger restrictors, higher speed and less agility.

And on pole at Paul Ricard.