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  #91  
Old 09-09-2008, 07:58 PM
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I've heard people here and elsewhere say you can't cut a corner to gain an advantage and frankly, that is not the reason why he was penalised as per the rules - my earlier post shows this. However, maybe there are some unwritten rules.
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  #92  
Old 09-09-2008, 08:15 PM
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McLaren appeal rejected!
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  #93  
Old 09-09-2008, 08:23 PM
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You dick!
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  #94  
Old 09-09-2008, 09:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockefella View Post
I predicted that.

EDIT: Also, I can't remember, but some claim that Raikkonen went off and could have potentially gained an advantage as well from this but was not penalised. Why was Lewis penalised? Just because he passed someone, even though he let him pass again?

Also, why is there not grass or something to slow down the cars when they go off so this sorta sillyness doesn't happen again?

If you go off, shouldn't you be penalised by the course's own design; gravel, grass, whatever?

Last edited by Kitdy; 09-09-2008 at 09:47 PM.
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  #95  
Old 09-09-2008, 10:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kitdy View Post
I predicted that.

EDIT: Also, I can't remember, but some claim that Raikkonen went off and could have potentially gained an advantage as well from this but was not penalised. Why was Lewis penalised? Just because he passed someone, even though he let him pass again?
Hypocrisy
Also, he was percieved to have gained more of an advantage from his manouver than Raikonnen did.

Quote:
Also, why is there not grass or something to slow down the cars when they go off so this sorta sillyness doesn't happen again?

If you go off, shouldn't you be penalised by the course's own design; gravel, grass, whatever?
I guess circuit lawn maintenance is one of the few areas left in racing that the FIA has yet to regulate.
My guess as to why no gravel pit is that because it's relatively easy to run wide there, at the chicane, many cars might get stuck in the gravel, get dnfs, and thus it would be a boring race. Although, this line of thought does have one flaw. If Ferrari is already the winner pre-race, there is no need to race and no running wide and bogging down.
Sorry if this is more a sarcastic diatribe than an answer to your question:sigh:
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Last edited by f6fhellcat13; 09-09-2008 at 10:31 PM.
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  #96  
Old 09-09-2008, 11:45 PM
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Raikkonen had gone off at the start to avoid Hamilton when he spun, and possibly avoiding Rosberg later. Theres definately some rules that are treated different under normal racing conditions than when, say, avoiding an incident with another car that has spun. Such as in Monaco when nobody got penalised for overtaking through Loews Hairpin after Alonso nerfed Heidfeld.
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  #97  
Old 09-10-2008, 12:42 AM
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I disagree with your statement that the normal penalty for this infringement would be a 25 second penalty as it is usually just giving back the place.
I also disagree with that statement because that was not what I meant to say. If you cut a corner, gain direct advantage during a fight with a competitor and don't give it back, you'll get 25 seconds (the equivalent of a drive through) when this takes place during the final five laps of a race. Hope that is clear now.
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  #98  
Old 09-10-2008, 02:31 AM
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But didn't Hamilton give the position back?
Also, from the appeal, I note that McLaren asked Race Control if the pass on Kimi was OK and they said it was (I assume McLaren has transcripts of this conversation). Why did the stewards change their mind later when there existed the immediate option to say, "no, let Kimi back past or Lewis will be penalised".

Now, here's a question to those who say Lewis should be penalised.
If the positions had been reversed and it was Kimi, not Lewis who cut the chicane, would you say Kimi should be penalised? Or would there instead be questions about Lewis forcing Kimi wide?
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Last edited by motorsportnerd; 09-10-2008 at 02:38 AM.
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  #99  
Old 09-10-2008, 02:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack_Bauer View Post
I think what MSN was referring to is the fact that the normal punishment for "unsafe release" is a 10 second stop-and-go penalty (a penalty which in practice would be more like a 35-second post race penalty). But the stewards were lenient and gave him just a monetary fine, which in the grand scheme of things meant absolutely nothing.
I thought the penalty for "unsafe release" was a drive through. However, you're right in saying I'm questioning the consistency of the rules.
Lewis is still a young driver, and has made some serious mistakes that could yet cost him the title (Canada and France in particular). He is yet to mature fully as a driver. However, I don't think his relative immaturity is the problem with his pass on Kimi. I think most of the drivers would have given the position and then attacked again immediately.
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  #100  
Old 09-10-2008, 03:05 AM
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Who here still thinks tarmac run-off areas are a good thing?
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  #101  
Old 09-10-2008, 03:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by motorsportnerd View Post
But didn't Hamilton give the position back?
Also, from the appeal, I note that McLaren asked Race Control if the pass on Kimi was OK and they said it was (I assume McLaren has transcripts of this conversation). Why did the stewards change their mind later when there existed the immediate option to say, "no, let Kimi back past or Lewis will be penalised".
Is fighting for a position the same as giving it back?

By McLaren they had asked the race control about the pass twice, and apparently it was ok. I don't think the conversation was that clear if they had to ask it twice. Maybe the stewards are to blame of the whole incident, but as long as all pointing to it is a claim by McLaren, I'm not buying it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by motorsportnerd View Post
Now, here's a question to those who say Lewis should be penalised.
If the positions had been reversed and it was Kimi, not Lewis who cut the chicane, would you say Kimi should be penalised? Or would there instead be questions about Lewis forcing Kimi wide?
So really you're just asking if we're Kimi fans and hate Lewis. Would it give more value to my opinions if I had a British flag next to my name instead of the Finnish one?

Last edited by twinspark; 09-10-2008 at 03:21 AM.
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  #102  
Old 09-10-2008, 03:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wouter Melissen View Post
Who here still thinks tarmac run-off areas are a good thing?
Fuji Speedway officials. You could do a complete lap outside the track.

Sand or gravel ftw.
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  #103  
Old 09-10-2008, 03:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twinspark View Post
Is fighting for a position the same as giving it back?
Lifting and letting Kimi past can be "viewed" as "giving" the position back. Of course, Lewis may have done it so that he could pick up the draft and be in better position for La Source. It depends on one's interpretation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by twinspark View Post
By McLaren they had asked the race control about the pass twice, and apparently it was ok. I don't think the conversation was that clear if they had to ask it twice. Maybe the stewards are to blame of the whole incident, but as long as all pointing to it is a claim by McLaren, I'm not buying it.
That's why I said that I presume McLaren has the transcripts of the conversation.



Quote:
Originally Posted by twinspark View Post
So really you're just asking if we're Kimi fans and hate Lewis. Would it give more value to my opinions if I had a British flag next to my name instead of the Finnish one?
I'm not British. And I was a big fan of Mika Hakkinen in year's past. It is true that I'm not a Kimi Raikkonen fan. Nor is Lewis my favourite driver now. I support Webber when he goes well.
My question is this. Does the fact that the controversy involves Lewis Hamilton (who is undoubtedly a forceful and controversial driver) influence people's views? Would everyone who is arguing that the stewards got it right, be just as adament that a penalty should be applied if the drivers involved had been Trulli and Rosberg for example?
In other words, are you arguing for consistency in steward's rulings?

Lewis has been penalised five times this year - more than any other driver. Four of them were the correct decision. The latest is highly debatable. Lewis' past transgressions may have even influenced the latest decision.
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  #104  
Old 09-10-2008, 04:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by motorsportnerd View Post
Lewis has been penalised five times this year - more than any other driver. Four of them were the correct decision. The latest is highly debatable. Lewis' past transgressions may have even influenced the latest decision.
That's an interesting point. Had he behaved better in the past, he may have been given the been given the benefit of the doubt.
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  #105  
Old 09-10-2008, 04:15 AM
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It is possible that those trangressions have cost Lewis the championship this year as well. Particularly his brain-fade in Canada.
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