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  #61  
Old 11-17-2009, 07:01 AM
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Rosberg and Heidfeld, yes?

Edit: What he said.
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  #62  
Old 11-17-2009, 08:48 AM
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How many of you believe Brawn's claims they did very little development on the car post-Turkey, except for a few weeks of work in the wind tunnel etc?

I personally dont think they stopped that early. The early flyaway rounds they were getting caught pretty quickly by Red Bull and Toyota whilst Brawn didnt add many parts to their car. After that when Red Bull were clearly fast enough to fight for the titles, they didnt exactly drop back though. The only blip was the upgrades they made to the rear end which were supposed to give more suspension travel, but made the car more temperature sensitive.

If they really gave up all development thinking they were that far ahead, i think they wouldve been dropped by Red Bull at a similar rate they were getting caught for the first few races.
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  #63  
Old 11-17-2009, 10:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LTSmash View Post
I don't see it as a smart move if you are basing the investment on fundamentals (who does that anymore ). Brawn had a very lucky season with the diffuser controversy. If I were Merc I'd stay with McLaren because of proven consistency. The value of the investment at McLaren will be worth more because Brawn has a higher percentage of blowing up in this volatile economy. Considering, also, that teams with out lines of cash are dropping like flies. Brawn is junk McLaren is AAA.

Brawn has higher return potential but McLaren is the safer bet.
Sure it is so from an economical point of view, but relationships with McLaren were deteriorating themselves since a couple of years so:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferrer View Post
I doubt Daimler values their investment purely from a financial point of view only. As fpv_gtho points put there other reasons that have made Daimler decided to leave McLaren and invest in Brawn.

Also they'll get greater exposure now since the team will be a full fledged Mercedes-Benz one now, instead of a McLaren Mercedes.
what they said.

And I'm with FPV regarding the supposed lack of development on Brawn's cars. Perhaps the updates were subtler, but still present.
Even if they focused from mid year on on the 2010 car, they had much less money to invest than in 2008. Now that they won the WCC (worth 80 M $ in prize) they surely have the required money, not even considering what MB may bring in, but it's definitely too late to start a car, which is why we are all doubting about the new teams.
Chances they will be strong but not over the top next year are pretty solid, albeit chances that they would have won both titles in 2008 were zero.
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  #64  
Old 11-17-2009, 02:31 PM
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Räikkönen's manager has stated that their negotiations with McLaren have ended without success. Earlier it's been told that McLaren is the only team they were negotiating with, so it is very likely that Kimi won't drive an F1 next year.

Edit: I suppose that also means that rumours of Button's move to McLaren weren't just meant to get Räikkönen's price down.

Last edited by twinspark; 11-17-2009 at 02:33 PM.
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  #65  
Old 11-17-2009, 03:10 PM
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Very pity. I was still hoping to see him racing again, having in mind he seems to be motivated again...
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  #66  
Old 11-17-2009, 09:07 PM
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Consider the fact that Brawn car still gets upgrade parts bit by bit mid-season they probably didn't shift all the work to 2010. Ferrari however, got next to nothing upgraded later on that you can be pretty sure that they were working exclusively on 2010. Will be interesting to see if that pays off....

IMO the lack of serious interest in signing Button shows a lot of what the Brawn/MB management really think of their WDC, despite the sweet words in the press....Apparently he was asking for 8 mil pound sterling, and Fry weren't prepare to give more than 4....
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  #67  
Old 11-18-2009, 03:49 AM
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I suppose he can't be so good as a developer, otherwise I'd wonder why it take so long to have even a decent car. OK; the design team maybe sucked until 2008, or they way of working, but every year since 2006 those cars never improved trough the season.
After all Barrichello had a little more misfortune during the year but was still there to fight for the title. Now we all now Barrichello is an excellent driver but possibly lacks what it takes to win multiple WDCs. Button did beat him, no doubt, but not by a very large margin.
probably this, among other to us unknown considerations, is what prevented Brawn from signing on a snap him a while ago.

And this is without considering the fact his season was divided into to different part, or the fact that while being desperate for money to wash his laundry, he still got the spare pennies to buy a Veyron. Not my business, that's for sure.
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  #68  
Old 11-18-2009, 05:38 AM
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I dont know if you could criticise Button for his development skills, but Barrichello's arrival at Honda exposed alot about the team and some of the issues that Button and Davidson had been simply driving around.
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  #69  
Old 11-18-2009, 06:42 AM
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Button has signed, and Donington is going into liquidation today. Another Ecclestone crime, that is most likely going to be left unpunished.
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  #70  
Old 11-18-2009, 07:02 AM
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yep. done and dusted.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ITV-F1
World champion Jenson Button has signed a deal to drive for McLaren from next season which will see him form a blockbuster all-British line-up with Lewis Hamilton.

McLaren announced the signing of the 29-year-old on what it described as a "multi-year" deal early on Wednesday afternoon, the confirmation coming less than a month after Button clinched his first world title with the Brawn team.

Button and his management had been in contract talks with Brawn – which this week was taken over by Mercedes – since the Abu Dhabi season finale but those discussions reached an impasse with the parties failing to agree financial terms on a new deal.

That stalemate led the Briton to consider his options and, after touring McLaren’s Woking factory last week, he has now opted to cut his ties with his long-time Brackley home after seven years and race alongside his predecessor as world champion Hamilton.

Button admitted it had been a tough decision to leave the team he initially joined when it was known as BAR 2003 – but says he wanted to set himself a new challenge on the back of his title victory.

The Englishman said it was McLaren's rich F1 history, technical capabilities and ambition to win that convinced him to jump ship.

"It’s always a difficult decision to leave a team when you’ve been there for so long," Button said in a statement.

"But life is all about challenges – and, most important of all, it’s about challenging yourself. So, although I won the World Championship with Brawn GP last year, and I’ll never forget that, I was always adamant that I wanted to continue to set myself fresh challenges.

“So that’s why I’ve decided to join Vodafone McLaren Mercedes.

"You can’t help but be affected by this team’s phenomenal history.

"I’ve followed the McLaren team ever since I was a small boy, and it feels unbelievable to finally be a part of it.

“When I visited the McLaren Technology Centre earlier this month, it wasn’t simply the technical resources and the incredible standards of excellence that impressed me.

"No, I was equally struck by the ambition, the motivation and the winning spirit that flow through everybody there.”

Button’s McLaren move – which will see him take the coveted #1 away from the Mercedes GP to its former exclusive partner’s operation in 2010 – sets up the prospect of two of the sport’s biggest stars going head-to-head for the sport’s top honours in the same team.

And although McLaren fell short of a title challenge in 2009, Button is confident that he will have the chance to defend his world title.

“While I’m fully aware that there’s a tremendous amount of hard work ahead, I’m absolutely certain that Vodafone McLaren Mercedes will be able to deliver where it matters: on track,” he said.

“I’m already looking forward to starting work with the engineers at the McLaren Technology Centre as we begin our preparations for the 2010 season – and the defence of my world championship.

“This is a team that always goes racing to win, and I’m looking forward to being part of that.”

And while he has opted to turn his back on his long-time F1 home, Button says he will never forget what the Brawn team achieved this year and wishes the team well for its new era under Mercedes ownership.

“Last but very far from least, I want to say that the 2009 season will always have a special place in my memory, and I’m absolutely sure that everybody at Brawn GP who worked so hard to achieve our World Championship successes feels exactly the same way about it,” Button added.

“Equally, I want to thank the guys at Mercedes-Benz HighPerformanceEngines, without whom we’d never have been as competitive as we were. I’m so pleased that I’ll still be using their engines in 2010 and beyond.

"So I wish all my old Brawn GP mates well in their new Mercedes Grand Prix adventure, just as I hope they’ll wish me well in my new Vodafone McLaren Mercedes adventure.”

The signing of Button leaves Heikki Kovalainen looking for a new drive for 2010 following two largely disappointing seasons at Woking.

Earlier on Wednesday Kimi Raikkonen’s manager revealed the former world champion – who at one stage had appeared the front-runner for the McLaren seat – was out of the running for the driver seat would now take a sabbatical from F1 in 2010.

The former Brawn team may now turn to BMW refugee Nick Heidfeld to replace the outgoing Button, with Nico Rosberg already understood to have signed a contract to drive at the Brackley squad.

Button makes McLaren switch - F1 | ITV Sport
Nice. Rosberg and Raikkonen at mercedes next year then it seems
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  #71  
Old 11-18-2009, 07:07 AM
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Kimi opted for rally....f Kimi would actually take the 15 million contract it would mean in reality that he would pay two million to drive and do the lovely pr-crap all year long that he absolutely hates.

The other option...take 17 million, do whatever you want, rally etc. seems quite a good deal.
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  #72  
Old 11-18-2009, 07:15 AM
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really? how did i miss that haha

well in that case then Rosberg and Heidfeld at Mercedes. Ironically that would make 2 mercedes teams. Both with complete german and british driver lineups.

Hamilton - Button
Massa - Alonso
Webber - Vettel
Rosberg - Heidfeld

Is it just me or that possibly the most perfect top 4 team driver lineup in recent memory? Atleast since the Schumi-Hakkinen days.

Last edited by Cotterik; 11-18-2009 at 07:19 AM.
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  #73  
Old 11-18-2009, 07:34 AM
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It seems official that Raikkonen won't race in F1 next year, his manager Steve Robertson confirmed it saying the only interesting option was McLaren, and that they preferred to not risk with the new minor teams (as if they were willing/able to pay that much).
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  #74  
Old 11-18-2009, 07:52 AM
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he seems a bit bored recently with the prospect of racing in F1. Obviously even when he's winning we see minimal emotion but he's walked through the past 3 or 4 years with ease, never dropping below par but then again hes not been competetive for some time. Partly due to ferrari's drop in form. I can imagine taking a year out could work badly for him though. Talent is constantly moving in and out of F1. And new champions are coming about each year as we speak. There's barely enough teams to fit all the talent in as it is. Somehow i dont think he can afford to be picky if he wants to re-enter the sport in 2011. With the lineup i listed above, i doubt any of the top teams will be willing to sacrifice one of their drivers for kimi's services. Because essentially those drivers are all, atleast on the face of it, more intent on pushing the boundaries they are faced with. If kimi can prove competetive in rallying, then he would be much more suited to it IMO. He shares many qualities with top rally drivers. I.E calm and collected, consistent under pressure and enduring. But F1 is all about aggression these days. And kimi has been too comfortable in his runner-up position. Perhaps he feels he has little else to prove. But we all know that the circumstances upon which he won the world championship left us all waiting to see him prove he can win it as a dominant force.

Last edited by Cotterik; 11-18-2009 at 07:54 AM.
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  #75  
Old 11-18-2009, 08:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Cotterik View Post
But we all know that the circumstances upon which he won the world championship left us all waiting to see him prove he can win it as a dominant force.
Even i I agree with almost the rest you wrote (except the fact I'm not that sure he will be fine rallying), I have always been fine about his 2007 title.
Yes, Hamilton suffered from a car failure and was therefore out of the games, but Raikkonen was still there ready to grab the title. If Hamilton's problem would have happened during the say third race, much less people would be "complaining". Not to be forget the whole spygate thing.
Having a tough car is essential to win, but having the full design of a winning car to look at with your own and different point of view is priceless (until they catch you that is). Even if Hamilton and Alonso were great drivers during the 2007 season, I can't avoid thinking what the car was capable of wasn't as genuine as their abilities. Hence, I don't see a single problem with Raikkonen's title.
I'm less "happy" about how Hamilton won last year to be honest but at the end of the day I don't bother it, I'm not such a good Massa fan, and it was a fair year so props to him even if he won because Glock was swimming in his cockpit.
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