2010 24 Hours of Le Mans, LMS and ALMS news

[henk4]

Of course, when Audi wins it is because they have the best team, and when Peugeot wins it is not because of their own strength. When Audi has something happening like the Dindo helmet it is a freak accident, and when Peugeot would have a similar thing you would call it lack of professionalism of a wannabe team, I suppose.
I do appreciate proper analysis of races, but when it is coming from you it is very difficult to see any attempt to an objective approach.

and b.t.w, if you have a close look at my avatar, you will note the R15 sticker on the right top side of the rear window

[Kitdy]

Is Peugeot going to develop a new car to comply with the new regulations next year?

I heard rumblings months ago of Peugeot leaving the sport, which would be tragic.

I want to see both Audi and Peugeot develop a car at the same time and debut it next year.

I hear the R18 will be a coupe.

[henk4]

Is Peugeot going to develop a new car to comply with the new regulations next year?

I heard rumblings months ago of Peugeot leaving the sport, which would be tragic.

I want to see both Audi and Peugeot develop a car at the same time and debut it next year.

I hear the R18 will be a coupe.

AFAIK Peugeot is developing a new car, with all options still open, even whether it will be a petrol or a diesel car.

[faksta]

I think I've heard that Peugeot could miss next year and get in with a new energy in 2012. Not sure, though - I think it was a speculation.

Also, there is a possibility of a hybrid Peugeot LMP1 car, like the 908 based prototype was (I think this info was in this year's Le Mans 24h official program or some other dedicated reading).

P.S. Judging by Radio le Mans translation, the race was great, especially the unexpected outcome in GT2. Sadly, around lap 100 or something there was no more streams in the Internet (the guys has switched to a pinnacle of motorsports - NASCAR), so I couldn't enjoy the action.

[henk4]

I spoke with Nic Minassian at the Goodwood Revival, and he was rather inconclusive, but was sure that he was driving for them next year.

[faksta]

It would be great. Otherwise, the 2011 Le Mans will become a game of one player.

[faksta]

By the way, next year Marussia B1 is planned to be entered in Le Mans and GT championship. No word about whether they will spend a season in LMS and no info about whether the GT championship is GT1 or GT2.

[Chernaudi]

Of course, when Audi wins it is because they have the best team, and when Peugeot wins it is not because of their own strength. When Audi has something happening like the Dindo helmet it is a freak accident, and when Peugeot would have a similar thing you would call it lack of professionalism of a wannabe team, I suppose.
I do appreciate proper analysis of races, but when it is coming from you it is very difficult to see any attempt to an objective approach.

and b.t.w, if you have a close look at my avatar, you will note the R15 sticker on the right top side of the rear window

Actually Pieter, if the Pugs had a strong run like Audi was having and they had Dindo's hemet probelm happen to them, that would be unfortunate, because either way, it spoiled what was working towards being one hell of a race, and both Audi and Peugeot said that the first 70% of the race was an excellent fight up until then.

However, history tells me that when Peugeot screws up, its often something in the drivers' or team's control, like Sarazin's spin and the bungled stop. Now that the 908's achived decent reliabiliy (as long as the engine guys don't screw with a proven formula, like at Le Mans ), it's in the hands of the team and drivers, and they still aren't 100% to the level of Audi, even though Audi themselves see Peugeot as being equal to them. And I think that you can thank the make of car that you own for the Pugs' improved reliablity, espically in regards to the 908's hydraulics . Citroen is the master of that relm undoubtedly.

Audi will have a hell of a time to mount a serious challenge to the 908 at Zhuhai. Audi are still serious contenders for the teams' title, but Peugeot only have to have one car reach 70% distance there to basically lock up the manufacturers' title. However, stranger things have happened, and Peugeot will have to keep Silverstone 2008 from happening.

That said, irregardless of what Peugeot does, Audi will have to basically get a 1-2 at Zhuhai to get the teams' title, and even then, they'll probably need help. And to do that, they'll likely need to find .5 of a second on a flying lap to do that. Not impossible, as the track layout should suit both Audi and Peugeot, but not all that likely either. There's a month between PLM and China, which is plenty of time to gain some speed. But will that be enough? I'm a little skepical about that, as Audi claims that the cars are easier to drive with their high downforce package. But aside from Silverstone, I think that they've only gained slightly against the 908. But we can also fault that to Audi not running that aero package at Spa, which would've been better than testing at the slow EuroSpeedway road course.

We'll have to see what happens at Zhuhai, as that's Audi's last chance to win in ILMC event for 2010 before the full season of 2011. Audi and Peugeot have never been to Zhuhai, and who ever gets their cars set up the fastest first will likely have the advantage, and traffic will be an issue, as Zhuhai is tighter and twister than Road Atlanta.

[Kitdy]

I spoke with Nic Minassian at the Goodwood Revival, and he was rather inconclusive, but was sure that he was driving for them next year.

Tu parle francais?

By the way, next year Marussia B1 is planned to be entered in Le Mans and GT championship. No word about whether they will spend a season in LMS and no info about whether the GT championship is GT1 or GT2.

I will eat my metaphorical hat if this happens.

[henk4]

Tu parle francais?

yes, and Nick lives in London.

[henk4]

Actually Pieter, if the Pugs had a strong run like Audi was having and they had Dindo's hemet probelm happen to them, that would be unfortunate, because either way, it spoiled what was working towards being one hell of a race, and both Audi and Peugeot said that the first 70% of the race was an excellent fight up until then.

yes, that is true, and that was the general feeling when the Silverstone show got so abruptly shortened by a faulty dif.
Yet I still have a feeling that if such a helmet problem would occur with Peugeot, you would attribute that to their lack of team performance, while in the Audi it is just a freak accident or bad luck that could have happened to anybody.
And no doubt Audi has the more experienced team, as they have been in this game since 1998 or so. I don't think that within Peugeot anything was left over from their 905 experience when they started with the 908. Yet within a couple of years the Pugs managed to overcome the Audi might, with some up and downs, gracefully helped by having the better car, in spite of being confronted halfway with a totally newly designed car launched by the ferocious competition....
(and honestly, I don't think Citroen as such has much to do with the hydraulics in the Pug, that is purely in house PSA, but if you want to label it "Citroen", go ahead)

[faksta]

I will eat my metaphorical hat if this happens.

If this happens, take mine as well

I actually hope it will be real. Everything they've planned before has happened in time, so now I believe them.

[RacingManiac]

I don't think that within Peugeot anything was left over from their 905 experience when they started with the 908.

Except the actual designer actually...the car does share some detail with the older car...namely the rear suspension arrangement...

[Chernaudi]

Some of the areo cues carred over from the 905 (particularly the "Supercopter"), but not much else. Active suspension is banned, only ASR traction control is legal, although the current cars get somewhat close to it in concept, the precise concept of ground effect is banned (though with the nose diffuser, it doesn't surprise me if the 908, even on 1993 spec tires would have more front grip).

At the same time, the big diesel engines didn't exist, and the 1993 tires probably couldn't cope with about 900 ft/lbs of torques that the Audi and Pug diesels make, and the inerter damper/J-damper didn't exist, which was deveoped by McLaren and later Ferrari F1 teams to get some of the benefits of active suspension without using the banned technology.

As for if Peugeot had the helmet issue if they were leading, it would depend on if they used the same glue and attatchment practices that Audi did. If it were the same, it would be an unfortunate issue. However, Peugeot has made more than their fair share of mistakes this year, such as the inexcusable error of using un-valiadated titianium rods in the 908's engine to gain revs because of the fear that Audi put into them on the engine front, as well as blowing a gearbox at Hungaroring.

On that issue, it could be a freak faulty part, like Audi at Silverstone. But I've also heard rumors that the Pug's gearbox wasn't designed for tracks like Hungaroring, and thus was excessively stressed and failed as a result. Which is true, I don't know, but knowing that Peugeot had trouble with the car's gearbox in the past doesn't do them many favors for me on that front--it's like British Leyand cars and people's views on them. Once they had problems, and they happened again, and again and again, the cars' reputaion was always suspect and regarded with skepticism, if not down right cynicism, even after the issues were cured.

I'll grant that the 908 has achived decent reliablty now, but the issues of 2010, namely an unneeded change of engine parts design and the gearbox issue in Hungary are issues that Peugeot didn't have in 2009. And I think that Peugeot is worried about what happens if Audi is able to find another half second in their cars. If Audi is already able to fight with them with a car that's a guarenteed .5=.7 of a second slower on a flying lap, what happens if Audi erases much of that gap, which, as PLM showed, isn't siginicant once the race starts.

If Peugeot want to challenge Audi like they have been, the 90x will have to have rock solid reliablty out of the gate, because we all know that's what Audi will aim for, and they know from racing the R8, R10 and R15 the postives and negatives, and chassis and engine wise, the R18 will be close to the R8 (or Bentley Speed 8, if the R18 is a closed car). I worry if Peugeot goes for a 2.0 I4 turbo, that they'll give up some reliability. And V6s haven't been successful at Le Mans, namely the PRV 90 deg V6. However, the Audi R18 is possibly a V6, too.

I still feel that if Audi avoids freak issues and gains some speed, they'll give Peugeot some worries at Zhuhai. And it seems that it may be part of the rainy season there, though the climate there seems to be warm in early Novmember, and there's little question that Audi is still faster than the 908 in the rain. However, the race is a month off, and Novemeber marks a transition to the dry season.

That said, the layout, according to some drivers, favors cars with good brakes, and I think that Audi does have a little better brake package than Peugeot does--it seems like the Pug guys really have to hammer the brakes and heat them up to get the best out of the 908, while Audi has a lot of extra brake cooling devices to keep temps to a minimum until the brakes are needed.

We shall see what Zhuhai has in store, as neither Audi and Peugeot haven't been there, and Audi will likely try to improve the R15 to try to win at least one ILMC race. To do that, though, Audi will have to squezze .5 of a second out of the R15, and they's struggled to do the full job there for the most part so far.

[henk4]

I still feel that if Audi avoids freak issues and gains some speed, they'll give Peugeot some worries at Zhuhai. And it seems that it may be part of the rainy season there, though the climate there seems to be warm in early Novmember, and there's little question that Audi is still faster than the 908 in the rain. However, the race is a month off, and Novemeber marks a transition to the dry season.

When I referred to the 905 I was more thinking about the team experience than the technical aspects of the car. In this respect I found the manning of the second Audi at PLM not quite up to standard, as only Treluyer can be considered a top driver, even with Peugeot experience. Lotterer and Fassler are nothing special.

I have big questionmarks with your quoted statements. How can you prove that? We had one race this year in Spa and the track was wet at the initial parts of the races and off and away were the Pugs...(don't give me the aero part there...) At the end it was raining a litle bit again and we saw what Sarrazin did to Kristensen to renegate him to third place.

Apart from Spa, all races where they raced together were dry.