Automotive Photography Competition #178 [Voting, Pt. 2]

[<AAA-MOD>]

Let's just put the voting in only one thread next time and everybody will be happy.

Good.

I think that's the key solution. Ideally it would be great to take 30 entries and split them into two equal (in general quality) groups of 15, but that will ALWAYS be subjective.

Having one poll is the only way to alleviate all of these issues.

I only said a max of 10 entries in my previous post because i thought that was the maximum allowed in a poll. I now see that it's 15, so should there be a max of 15 per comp?

[John Thawley]

I think that's the key solution. Ideally it would be great to take 30 entries and split them into two equal (in general quality) groups of 15, but that will ALWAYS be subjective.

Having one poll is the only way to alleviate all of these issues.

I only said a max of 10 entries in my previous post because i thought that was the maximum allowed in a poll. I now see that it's 15, so should there be a max of 15 per comp?

You might consider (looking at the current situation) having a second round of voting that combines the top 10 vote getters, or a natural break in the percentage of vote count... something like top 10 or top 6. For instance, if you have 3 or 4 images that are tied with a respectable number of votes, adjust the "finals" count to accommodate.

I suggest this because you reactivate the interest of those that DIDN'T vote for original high vote getters. If you're going to have a finals, people deserve to have choices. If the original high vote getters are that good... there should be nothing to worry about.

You have to consider that you have situations that our outside the parameters you've set for voting. You state... "pick the best photo." Well, I assure you, there are people voting for their favorite car. There are people who don't like racing photos. There are people who don't like over-processed photos. And consider if you have two GREAT Ferrari photos... and all the Ferrari lovers split their vote between the two... between those images COULD have been the overall winner. But because there were two great Ferrari shots, the Ferrari contingency was divided. Hence, neither wins. It's the old, "divided we fall."

So, if you have this many entries... have a run-off and give people choices... empower their vote.

One last comment... I think the board would benefit greatly from some photo related discussion. What makes a good photo good? Help people improve their own photography. There are a lot of people here with a lot to offer.. it might be good to bring more dialogue into the mix on the entry pages. That said, I think critique and comments about "favorites" should be kept off the voting pages.

Hope you find this helpful.

JT

[cmcpokey]

i think that is a good idea, but with just a week timeframe, dont you think that would take quite a while? seems like you woudl be voting on the finals from 2 weeks ago, while you have one large set on initial voting, then submitting another set.

it may work, but i think you would struggle to find someone to manage all those threads.

[<AAA-MOD>]

i think that is a good idea, but with just a week timeframe, dont you think that would take quite a while? seems like you woudl be voting on the finals from 2 weeks ago, while you have one large set on initial voting, then submitting another set.

it may work, but i think you would struggle to find someone to manage all those threads.

I believe he's only referring to the instances where we have two polls in one week, like we do now.

Good point to have a final with maybe the 3 best from each poll.

[John Thawley]

Good point to have a final with maybe the 3 best from each poll.

Hmmm... no. Not really. You've already created an arbitrary split in the images with your first two polls. Where the discrepancy lies is in the arbitrary split. If there are 3 strong images in one thread and only 1 strong image in the other thread, that 1 strong image is garnering a disproportionate number of votes. Whereas, the strong images in the other thread are sharing the vote among 3. See my point?

Since people have already voted in both, you'd need to pull and combine the highest votes from BOTH threads using a pre-determined number of finalists. But you have to look at the current votes in total... otherwise you're rewarding the arbitrary positioning of the original split.

JT

[John Thawley]

I'll gladly disqualify myself if it makes others feel better>

In thread two you have images getting 25, 16, 13, 1, 1 votes.
In thread one you have images getting 30, 10, 7, 7, 1, 0 votes.

Keeping in mind EVERYONE got to vote in each thread. But, since the images were added arbitrarily, you can't say that the winner of thread one is strong than the winner of thread two because voters weren't comparing the two images. They were comparing with the respective images within a thread. So in reality, you don't really know if the winning image in thread one is even COMPARITIVELY stronger than the second or third place images in thread two. They weren't a side by side comparison presented to the voters. Only the images within the thread were compared. If it were a greater number in each thread... that might be different.

So, it is my contention, and with no deference to those that didn't garner enough votes, your ideal "shoot-out" would be the top three images in the second thread and the top two in the first thread. Even the second strongest image is only in single digit percentile... all the other suggested finalists are in double digit. (Keep in mind, the percentile displayed is wrong... it only represents the percentage of half the votes cast).

Again, I'll be happy to disqualify myself if anyone things my motivation is self serving. It's not. With all due respect, I don't think the current voting is reflecting the true eventual outcome. I could be wrong... but we won't know if we don't do it accurately.

JT

[basman007]

Oke, so I'll put together the strongest images (in terms of votes) for the run-off.

Sorry for this messy voting system. It was the first time I made the threads. Next time will be like we did in the previous weeks.

[John Thawley]

Oke, so I'll put together the strongest images (in terms of votes) for the run-off.

Sorry for this messy voting system. It was the first time I made the threads. Next time will be like we did in the previous weeks.

This was not your fault. And, on the surface, it would appear the top two vote getters would be the perfect showdown. However, when you're dealing with such small numbers, the law of averages is not on your side. Had we had maybe 10 entries in each thread and several hundred voters, you could put a little more faith in the laws of average... but I think we're going to see how upside down the "appearance" of the vote really was. Hey.. we've all learned something. That's what counts.

JT

[basman007]

Hey.. we've all learned something. That's what counts.

Indeed