V8 Supercars: Round 13 Phillip Island, Caterpillar Finale

[fpv_gtho]

I think people would be talking about a failed attempt from Kelly to take it from Lowndes slick. At the time Lowndes was still ahead of Rick after he'd done the drive though. Had Lowndes gotten away as cleanly as Todd did, then Rick wouldve done Lowndes a favour actually.

[adrenaline]

Slick, I don't think you completely understand how contact between cars is governed. Contact is permitted, but the nature of the contact is what determines if a penalty will be imposed or not. Sure, Bright made contact with Skaife, but the nature of that contact was different to the nature of the contact made between Rick and Craig. There is always contact between the different cars in the field. Most of the time it's just close racing, as was Bright's contact with Skaife. Bright had been trying to pass Skaife for a long time and had touched him more than once. The reason Bright made more noticable contact with Skaife at the hairpin is because Bright got all locked up. Since the contact was a result of him getting locked up, and was light contact that couldn't be avoided and ended in Bright spinning out, there is certainly no penalty. It's just close racing, and Bright was on Skaife's tail for a long, long time. If you take another look at the footage of Tander holding up Craig, you will see that Craig made contact or 'hit' Tander many times, especially at the hairpin where Tander took the chance to hold up Craig as much as possible. But again, it's just close racing (If you want to call what Tander was doing 'racing').

Now let's look at the contact made between Kelly and Lowndes. It was lap three, nobody was going to win it so early. The contact that Kelly made with Lowndes was a result of careless driving, that could have easily been avoided, but was not and had significant implications for the driver he hit. That kind of contact is very different to Bright locking up and nudging Skaife, or Craig tapping some morse code on the back of Tander's car at the hairpin due to Tander's less than slow pace. If anybody tries to say that it was Craig's fault, then explain why Rick's contact with Craig was recognised as careless by race control. If it was Craig's fault, then they wouldn't have black flagged Rick.

Now on to the blocking. Every driver can defend their line to a certain extent. Tander was not defending his line. Skaife was not defending his line. Both drivers were very clearly inentionally holding up Craig Lowndes, to the benefit of Rick Kelly. Even the commentators acknowledged that. They were not racing at pace. At one point, Tander was over two seconds off the pace, blocking Craig's path and giving Rick an easy job of catching up. Both drivers committed this crime to the extent where both were awarded bad sportsmanship flags, and Tander did it to the point where he was given a drive through penalty. So no matter how you look at it, it was blatant enough for race control to react. About drivers holding each other up in the past, sure it might happen. It could happen anytime during the season. The big difference is, the blocking and holding up of Craig Lowndes by Walkingshaw's drivers was planned before the race had even started.

[Garth Tander] was struggling with grip and control, And your hardly going too let the competitor past ford or holden.

That is false. Garth had a rocket in races one and three. But as soon as Lowndes is behind him, he is struggling. But that's not even the point here. He let Rick past instantly. He veered off the race line and let Rick straight through.

the fact remains had kelly not hit cl he would not have the car speed to catch and pass him as was proven in race two when craig was gapping him every lap, it would have been craigs championship

See now that is a crystal ball thing for race3.

Rick had not been as fast as Craig all weekend. He wasn't happy with the car for race three either, as he had the engineers out making adjustments to the suspension during the delayed start!

But anyway ford fans wouldn't be ford fans if they didn't have a holden driver too hate.. Every year got too pick one out too hate. Holden fans don't really give a toss there all blue

Who did we hate this year? Nobody.

I would be very interested to hear, in a one word answer, if you think that it was played fair by the Holden drivers. If you do think it was fair, then you might like to consider:

Holden:

• 2 bad sportsmanship flags for infringements against Craig Lowndes.
  
• 2 black flags for infringements against Craig Lowndes.
  
• Races one and two had 2 bad sportsmanship flags and one black flag awarded (For infringements against Craig Lowndes)
  
• Race three had 1 black flag for Rick ending Lowndes' race, and title chances. With Lowndes limping home four laps behind, the infringements ceased.

Ford:

• Zero.

It was not fair. Even if Rick won without taking out Craig Lowndes, there would controversy over how he got there over the weekend. Face it, without the Walkingshaw drivers letting Rick through the field, and at the same time significantly compromising Craig's pace in EVERY race, Rick wouldn't be crowned the cheating, round-winless champion of 2006.

[charged]

Slick look at the individual lap times of race 2, look at some of the slow laps GT was putting in and holding up CL and the same laps RK is over 1.5 seconds faster. After GT was out of the way CL absolutely waxed RK
Lap times courtesy of Natsoft timing

Rick Kelly is a cheat

[Daz27]

Rick Kelly is a cheat[/URL]

Amen to that, brother.

[SlickHolden]

I think people would be talking about a failed attempt from Kelly to take it from Lowndes slick. At the time Lowndes was still ahead of Rick after he'd done the drive though. Had Lowndes gotten away as cleanly as Todd did, then Rick wouldve done Lowndes a favour actually.

Yes and the contact would go down as a racing incident if they both went off. or just kelly. He should have just done a bright that's legal i here.

Slick, I don't think you completely understand how contact between cars is governed. Contact is permitted, but the nature of the contact is what determines if a penalty will be imposed or not. Sure, Bright made contact with Skaife, but the nature of that contact was different to the nature of the contact made between Rick and Craig. There is always contact between the different cars in the field. Most of the time it's just close racing, as was Bright's contact with Skaife. Bright had been trying to pass Skaife for a long time and had touched him more than once. The reason Bright made more noticable contact with Skaife at the hairpin is because Bright got all locked up. Since the contact was a result of him getting locked up, and was light contact that couldn't be avoided and ended in Bright spinning out, there is certainly no penalty. It's just close racing, and Bright was on Skaife's tail for a long, long time. If you take another look at the footage of Tander holding up Craig, you will see that Craig made contact or 'hit' Tander many times, especially at the hairpin where Tander took the chance to hold up Craig as much as possible. But again, it's just close racing (If you want to call what Tander was doing 'racing').

Now let's look at the contact made between Kelly and Lowndes. It was lap three, nobody was going to win it so early. The contact that Kelly made with Lowndes was a result of careless driving, that could have easily been avoided, but was not and had significant implications for the driver he hit. That kind of contact is very different to Bright locking up and nudging Skaife, or Craig tapping some morse code on the back of Tander's car at the hairpin due to Tander's less than slow pace. If anybody tries to say that it was Craig's fault, then explain why Rick's contact with Craig was recognised as careless by race control. If it was Craig's fault, then they wouldn't have black flagged Rick.

Now on to the blocking. Every driver can defend their line to a certain extent. Tander was not defending his line. Skaife was not defending his line. Both drivers were very clearly inentionally holding up Craig Lowndes, to the benefit of Rick Kelly. Even the commentators acknowledged that. They were not racing at pace. At one point, Tander was over two seconds off the pace, blocking Craig's path and giving Rick an easy job of catching up. Both drivers committed this crime to the extent where both were awarded bad sportsmanship flags, and Tander did it to the point where he was given a drive through penalty. So no matter how you look at it, it was blatant enough for race control to react. About drivers holding each other up in the past, sure it might happen. It could happen anytime during the season. The big difference is, the blocking and holding up of Craig Lowndes by Walkingshaw's drivers was planned before the race had even started.



That is false. Garth had a rocket in races one and three. But as soon as Lowndes is behind him, he is struggling. But that's not even the point here. He let Rick past instantly. He veered off the race line and let Rick straight through.



Rick had not been as fast as Craig all weekend. He wasn't happy with the car for race three either, as he had the engineers out making adjustments to the suspension during the delayed start!



Who did we hate this year? Nobody.

I would be very interested to hear, in a one word answer, if you think that it was played fair by the Holden drivers. If you do think it was fair, then you might like to consider:

Holden:

• 2 bad sportsmanship flags for infringements against Craig Lowndes.
  
• 2 black flags for infringements against Craig Lowndes.
  
• Races one and two had 2 bad sportsmanship flags and one black flag awarded (For infringements against Craig Lowndes)
  
• Race three had 1 black flag for Rick ending Lowndes' race, and title chances. With Lowndes limping home four laps behind, the infringements ceased.

Ford:

• Zero.

It was not fair. Even if Rick won without taking out Craig Lowndes, there would controversy over how he got there over the weekend. Face it, without the Walkingshaw drivers letting Rick through the field, and at the same time significantly compromising Craig's pace in EVERY race, Rick wouldn't be crowned the cheating, round-winless champion of 2006.

So basically kelly could have went into the corner too fast, Locked the brakes and hit craig in the rear sending him forward off the line and then pass him?
Just like Bright?

Of course it's fair it's racing, Ambrose wanted ford help in his winning years and everyone expected it.. But did he get it no. He wasn't happy one bit about it.. And now i would say he would be sitting watching saying i wish i had some help like that but i had too do it myself.

You can plan for many things but in the end they needed too get the cars up front. That isnt a plan so easy too achieve. Do we think if 88 got in front of Kelly that he wouldn't have blocked??

Holding a driver up, Could be seen as defending a position. It's been said on the other side of the fence many times.

From now on when ever someone gets behind the 888 car and it's defending it's position, The driver behind will get on the blower and complain about it.
There has been comments from people at the track saying lowndes was blocking earlier then that one corner.

Race 2 he had the faster car before the pits, And after the mistake of the wheel and then changing the one side of tyres he suffered with speed. But before that he had been in front of CL by a couple of seconds. And would have come out in front of Tander. Who was also struggling with the same tyre choice error. But as for race 3 kelly was on it hard and they changed from changing one side of tyres too doing the rears only. From what i could see in the first 3 laps was he this time had the car right on. It's not unusual for drivers too fiddle with the car going into the stage, there's not that many things they can do in the car.. But from race 1-2 they had rear grip problems and the idea too change rears was perfect as tander showed in the last race. Something they should have done in race 1-2.

Race 2 tander was much slower then race 1-3.. Do you really think tander is going too stop kelly from passing him with the championship on the line? Will he protect his team mate?
If fast enough do you think CL's team mate would run block for him? Like MSN said when he spun he deliberately turned the other way too avoid hitting CL which put him in the path of another car. So given the chance with Kelly behind him do you think he would open the door for him?

Slick look at the individual lap times of race 2, look at some of the slow laps GT was putting in and holding up CL and the same laps RK is over 1.5 seconds faster. After GT was out of the way CL absolutely waxed RK
Lap times courtesy of Natsoft timing

Rick Kelly is a cheat

You mean deffending his postion? It's hard too travel fast deffending. It wasnt 1.5 sec slower i didnt see that. Who ever does that right up needs bigger letter it's hard too see.
What i did see was kelly had the faster lap over CL. But before the pit again on the V8's page.

[motorsportnerd]

You could probably pick out one incident that ruined a race weekend for Tander that put him completely out of the championship.

Yeah - he has Holden Motor Sport and Uncle Tom to thank for that. If he'd kept his own car for Sandown/Bathurst, whether he teamed up with RK or not, he'd likely have won the championship. The decision to put GT in the HRT car cost him the title. Hindsight I know - but he can still feel agrieved that he had to help a team-mate he'd comprehensively outdriven all year win the title instead.
While on the topic of Garth Tander - I notice a few comments suggesting that some have lost respect for him for blocking Lowndes.
Well, Garth wanted to keep his job. There is no way Tom would've been happy with him if he hadn't slowed Craig down and kept him behind. That was his job. Those who think that is wrong should blame the team for it - not the driver, who is just driving to team orders and keeping his job intact.
I still rate GT as the number 1 driver this year.

[fpv_gtho]

Yes and the contact would go down as a racing incident if they both went off. or just kelly. He should have just done a bright that's legal i here.

Slick it was never going to go down as a racing incident simply by the nature of the impact. If it was John Bowe plowing into the back of Cameron McConville like that, Bowe wouldve still gotten a drive through for it.

[crisis]

Just heard the update, Protest dismissed, what a crock, just shows how much they want a holden with number one on the door

Or how much Lowndes should have shut his pie hole when he got the penalty at Indy.

[charged]

MSN originally posted

I notice a few comments suggesting that some have lost respect for him for blocking Lowndes.
Well, Garth wanted to keep his job. There is no way Tom would've been happy with him if he hadn't slowed Craig down and kept him behind. That was his job. Those who think that is wrong should blame the team for it - not the driver, who is just driving to team orders and keeping his job intact.
I still rate GT as the number 1 driver this year.

You are probably right there MSN, it would have been team orders and he was just doing his job. GT would have won the championship if he didnt swap teams and team up with Skaifey. Ive actually spoke to GT a few times when Leanne was running her RX7 in IPRA and he was a good bloke, no crap, straight shooter.

Hopefully next year with the new points system 2006 will be a distant memory.

[Daz27]

And Lowndes will win fair and square before Bathurst as he would have this year and the world will be happy once more...

[2ndclasscitizen]

Ive actually spoke to GT a few times when Leanne was running her RX7 in IPRA and he was a good bloke, no crap, straight shooter.

She's doing quite well in Formula Holden isn't she? I saw a piece in RPM on her and IIRC she was a very capable driver.

[charged]

Put it this way, when she had her RX7 see won state championships in NSW and Vic in the same year. The guy who has bought it cant get within 2 secs of her times, she had some pretty special 13b rotors in it but not a 2 second advantage. The girl can certainly steer a race car.

[2ndclasscitizen]

Put it this way, when she had her RX7 see won state championships in NSW and Vic in the same year. The guy who has bought it cant get within 2 secs of her times, she had some pretty special 13b rotors in it but not a 2 second advantage. The girl can certainly steer a race car.

I believe that was the gist of the piece, "Watch out for her, she's going far."

[SlickHolden]

Slick it was never going to go down as a racing incident simply by the nature of the impact. If it was John Bowe plowing into the back of Cameron McConville like that, Bowe wouldve still gotten a drive through for it.

Russell ingal made his name with them type of manovers




Funny thing i need you guys too answer me this question.

On the FF Forum i was accussed of this.

I always say "Holden is better Ford is shit" What does everyone think.

[2ndclasscitizen]

I always say "Holden is better Ford is shit" What does everyone think.

No you don't. Sure, you're a dyed-in-the-wool Holden fan (same as me!) but you always give Ford credit where credit is due and point out the foilbles with Holdens.

It's true anyway so who cares!