at least 1 person in the netherlands has some balls...

[henk4]

Fair enough, everyone is entitled to their opinion.

He should be entitled to his without having to worry about being assassinated. Wasn't some other politician in the netherlands assassinated not too long ago?

we had a filmmaker killed by a Muslim fundamentalist and a politician killed by an environmentalist.

[roosterjuicer]

wow thats unbelieveable

[henk4]

wow thats unbelieveable

which is what we say when we hear about these regular random shootings in your country...

[drakkie]

It might not be helpful to literally translate a Dutch expression into English. I do not remember Wilders having actually called Muslims "beasts", although he may secretively think so.
His appeal for freedom of speech was greatly compromised by his own appeal to forbid the Koran...

Not to handy, but I wouldn't know of a comparable expression in English. He did call them retards, dumb and whatever other insult you can imagine for the religion in general, not just the extremist people. I bet just as many extremist christians are around, if not more. Kind of funny comparison you make there, one i'll remember for the next discussion.

Here you make a fundamental mistake. He should be allowed to say anything he wants. It's really the problem of other people if some expressions are insulting to them. You can say whatever you want to me and it will not insult me. That's because I don't take you or anyone who'd attempt to insult me seriously. That's what people should do with Wilders' comments; not take them seriously. However because a large majority of our inhabitants are quickly insulted, it is impossible to say things. Wilders knows this, just as everybody knows that you should not run around Rotterdam in an Ajax shirt. There might be a problem here, but Wilders' approach only makes it worse.

So if i'd call you a retard (which I hope is not true ) time and time again all day long and make a lot of people think the same, you wouldnt care at all ? IMO criticism is not a problem at all, but insults are not the way to go. It has been tried multiple time by muslim organisations to get into a discussion with Mr.Wilders of which he refused all. He categorally refuses to talk and find a solution healthy to both parties.

His tough talking seems to make the matter only worse. Muslims feel treatened and either hide in the corner or come out, wanting to do something about it. But that is offcourse not correct. I've been the victim of a violent street robbery twice now. On one occasion I tried to talk to one of these (Maroccan) guys. He said something I will remember for always. "You hate us anyway, what do we care about you anyway. You are shit to me and all my muslim friends. You want to take us all away from our homeland." Afterwards he drawed a knife and tried to stab me, until just in time the police arrived with drawn weapons.

[Cotterik]

I bet just as many extremist christians are around, if not more. Kind of funny comparison you make there, one i'll remember for the next discussion.

Other than the IRA (not technically christian extremists, but with a christian motif) as of late there arent anywhere near as many extremist christians around. If that was the case then things like this dilema wouldnt happen in the first place. I think the sheer amount of threat that the islamic society is posing on european countries is the reason why we get people like this reacting in such a way. If there were christian extremists then we wouldve had all out war right now on our streets. Its the threat and the sheer radical view of the islamic culture flowing into european societys that is causing people like this guy to react in such a way. I wouldnt compare him to Hitler in such a way because there wasnt any "jewish extremists" to make Hitler turn against them. That was a different situation to this entirely.

Like I've said before, if this guy was in the UK and he said that in the papers. Man.. some people would be too scared to go outside of their homes. Its a tough situation to crack. Islamic culture has been around for centuries. Its just that its views and motifs are so different to the christian morals and culture that exists in european countries, that when people immigrate in large quantities. Which they are doing. There is a clash. Sooner or later you will get more and more people speaking out like this. If europeans had a reason to immigrate to islamic countries then they sure would have alot more to say about it than we do.

This guys approach seems somewhat unintelligent. But it does identify an issue. It just goes about it in the wrong way.

[Wouter Melissen]

So if i'd call you a retard (which I hope is not true ) time and time again all day long and make a lot of people think the same, you wouldnt care at all ?

Try me. It will just make you look silly, or should I say sillier. Just like his statements make Wilders look silly to sensible people. Unfortunately a large majority does not have my enlightened views.

[Wouter Melissen]

Other than the IRA (not technically christian extremists, but with a christian motif) as of late there arent anywhere near as many extremist christians around. If that was the case then things like this dilema wouldnt happen in the first place. I think the sheer amount of threat that the islamic society is posing on european countries is the reason why we get people like this reacting in such a way. If there were christian extremists then we wouldve had all out war right now on our streets. Its the threat and the sheer radical view of the islamic culture flowing into european societys that is causing people like this guy to react in such a way. I wouldnt compare him to Hitler in such a way because there wasnt any "jewish extremists" to make Hitler turn against them. That was a different situation to this entirely.

Like I've said before, if this guy was in the UK and he said that in the papers. Man.. some people would be too scared to go outside of their homes. Its a tough situation to crack. Islamic culture has been around for centuries. Its just that its views and motifs are so different to the christian morals and culture that exists in european countries, that when people immigrate in large quantities. Which they are doing. There is a clash. Sooner or later you will get more and more people speaking out like this. If europeans had a reason to immigrate to islamic countries then they sure would have alot more to say about it than we do.

This guys approach seems somewhat unintelligent. But it does identify an issue. It just goes about it in the wrong way.

Are you familiar with that small state within Rome? There is a guy with a silly hat in there that prohibits people from using condoms. That contributes to a certain extent to the deaths of millions of people every year.

[Falcon500]

I thought the IRA was disbanded?

[Cotterik]

I thought the IRA was disbanded?

They are. But if there isnt any other recent major examples of recent christian extremists thats why I mentioned them

Are you familiar with that small state within Rome? There is a guy with a silly hat in there that prohibits people from using condoms. That contributes to a certain extent to the deaths of millions of people every year.

I certainly am! I am an athiest and luckily that enables me to see the good/bad in all religions. And even more, speak freely of the issues within them. If religion as a whole didnt exist.. the world would be a brighter place!

[henk4]

They are. But if there isnt any other recent major examples of recent christian extremists thats why I mentioned them

I think there are a few of them around on the other side of the pond as well....

[drakkie]

I think there are a few of them around on the other side of the pond as well....

Plenty on the island next to ours. I was there one Saturday night in a popular bar. There were plenty of "normal" youths, but some very strict Christian parents as well, watching if the town's kids would not misbehave or wear too "open" clothing. Just an example. Basically everything in life that is not their way, they have tried to ban. Luckily most proposals were shot down by the opposition.

[Egg Nog]

Secondly, I am not a bigot. I do not think that all muslims are evil people or terrorists or anything like that, and I have never once said that I think that.

This guy referred to the "tyranny of Islamicization", and explicitly expressed that "Ninety-nine percent of the intolerance in the world comes back to the Islamic religion and the Koran."

Then you said "Its about time someone has the balls to tell the truth about what is going on".

So maybe now you understand why someone would attribute these opinions to you and consider you a bigot.

[kingofthering]

which is what we say when we hear about these regular random shootings in your country...

Blame it on our work-a-holic culture... ( )

[Falcon500]

This guy referred to the "tyranny of Islamicization", and explicitly expressed that "Ninety-nine percent of the intolerance in the world comes back to the Islamic religion and the Koran."

Then you said "Its about time someone has the balls to tell the truth about what is going on".

So maybe now you understand why someone would attribute these opinions to you and consider you a bigot.

Hes not a bigot he just acts like one.....

Frankly hes dug himself a fairly deep hole with no foreseeable way out. Ithink hes best off leaving this convo because there really isnt anyway to justify comments like that (xenophobia and racisum in the same go)

Like stuart (guy i went to school with) when he went to jail he hung out with neo nazis and he wanted a swastica tattoed on him now hes out and doesnt have his group looking after him he know has to wander the streets here with large indiginous,islander and ethnic communitys now hes sorry and wishes he never done it.