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Thread: 1939 Chevrolet All Enclosed Coupe

  1. #31
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    But a hatchback isn't a car that grants you access from the boot to the cabin. Many saloons can do that when the have folding rear seats and they aren't hatchbacks. A hatchback is the cars where the boot opening includes the boot lid and the rear window.
    Lack of charisma can be fatal.
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  2. #32
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    Utility Hatchbacks

    Citroen might have been first, but the idea was exploited by a few marques. Seems to me that Studebaker in the late 1930s produced a coupe/utility slope-back that opened to a pull out bed, similar to a small PU. I've found no pics though (yet). The idea was revived by Kaiser after WWII, producing the 1949-1953 Kaiser Traveler and Vagabond. Here's some pics of a '51. Very cool concept that didn't sell well enough, and the company slowly faded from the auto business. Check out the ads.

    These are cool cars, rare but reasonable... this one's for sale at $22,000.
    Never own more cars than you can keep charged batteries in...

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by nota View Post
    Did this Volvo feature a rear seat that folded down flat a-la modern hatchbacks to create unfettered access from the luggage area to the cabin?

    If not, then they are definately not 'just an earlier version' of Slopers.

    Henk do you consider the Commerciale to be a hatchback, as is the common boast? Personally I don't, its just a disfunctional wagon with a see-through bootlid. And I'm far less hung up on whether or not the rear glass swings up with the luggage lid, than of having to unbolt the fixed rear seat and drag it out of the car and then leave it behind in the garage, when trying to achieve an extended luggage area of the kind which made Hatchbacks so popular.
    The Slopers precede the shape of the Volvo 444, not the other way around.

    So we have three option seat
    A folding rear seat, with no way to open the rear window (hatch)
    A opening rear window with no way to fold the seats
    A opening rear window AND folding seats.

    The latter two I would call a hatchback,
    The first one not,but it might be more practical than the second option.

    The Kaiser is an example of the third option.

    The Renault 16 is generally considered as the first fast back hatchback with a magnitude of options concerning the rear seating arrangement. (Although the earlier R4 also had quite a lot of those, but possibly looked too much like a van.
    "I find the whole business of religion profoundly interesting, but it does mystify me that otherwise intelligent people take it seriously." Douglas Adams

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by henk4 View Post
    The Slopers precede the shape of the Volvo 444, not the other way around.
    Apologies, that was a 4am-style 'typo'

    I had intended to write: If not, then Slopers are definately no 'just an earlier version'

    But you have neglected my question henk; did the Volvo seats fold down? Because if not, then your claim is incorrect.
    So we have three option seat
    A folding rear seat, with no way to open the rear window (hatch)
    A opening rear window with no way to fold the seats
    A opening rear window AND folding seats.

    The latter two I would call a hatchback,
    The first one not,but it might be more practical than the second option.
    Only the later fits the general definition imo, with provisos.

    Otherwise you have just confirmed a controversial question: that my Hillman IMPs like mine were also hatchbacks. Lets see .. the seats did fold (although the was absolutely no load space aft of the seat) and the rear window did indeed lift up - because its ALL about the window, isn't it? Apparently the pivotal point all hinges (pardon those puns) solely on whether the glass itself is movable, above all else, including function or facility. Well I disagree with that view in regard to defining hatchbacks. I find it unrealistically and conveniently selective.

    And I'm not arguing that Slopers are authentic hatchbacks, only that they resemble them closely - and more closely meets the perception than does that later Citroen.

    A folding seat is crucial to the hatch function, and therefore the appeal (and resultant wild popularity) and thus to the definition. A simple tug on a seat latch to efforlessly convert the vehicle into wagon format. This is the whole point of these vehicles, and their great appeal.

    Imagine what a dumb car the Peugeot 104 (etc) Hatch would be if the seat didn't fold down! For example, how could you possibly fit a pushbike into hatchbacks [/i]without[/i] thaving he seat-fold facility?
    The Renault 16 is generally considered as the first fast back hatchback with a magnitude of options concerning the rear seating arrangement.
    Yeah I remember the rear seat of the Renault 16; it could be swung or folded or pivotted into two, and bizzarely even suspended up near the roof! The only seating arrangement that car didn't offer was the convenience of a rear seat that folded down to create a flat loadspace. Nowhere near it, so once again you had to get out the tools to unbolt and remove - just like the '39 Citroen Commerciale (but unlike a '35 Sloper, btw)

  5. #35
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    And speaking of hatchbacks and the Renault 16, well hows this for an inepensive (and highly collectible imo) example of the 16TS

    Love the terribly '70s-chintz paintwork, and that its a rare automatic may well (in perverse fashion) only adds to its appeal.

    Fwiw I might probably have bought this car if I had known about it, considering how pathetically cheap it sold for... (770.70 euro)

    Renault 16 TS 1974 purple - eBay Post-1970, Collector Cars (135,000 kms)

    This Renault was constructed in the Renault factory in Heidelberg, Melbourne, along with the Renault 12 and Peugeot 504 - thats right, arch-enemies Peugeot & Renault, constructed together side-by-side within the same factory! In later years they also built Cortina Wagons for Ford.

    Btw the colour is Chincona Red, one from the Dulux 'InstaFade' range and introduced for the 1974 model year. The colour was also used by Datsun, Toyota, Volkswagen, Triumph, Peugeot and Rambler.
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  6. #36
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    Oh no my eyes!

    The 70's were a... colorful... era.

    By the way, I also agree with Pieter, what makes a hatchback is the opening rear window, not the folding seats. That not being able to fold the seats does detract a lot from the practicality I agree, but it doesn't prevent the car from being a hatchback.

    The Alfasud illustrates all the differences within a sole range model. It had a saloon (that looked like a hatch), later was transformed into a hatchback and it was also sold as a liftback and an estate car. Look at the height of boot lid, it must have been a nightmare to put heavy objects in the boot.

    The original saloon


    The estate Giardinera


    The liftback coupé, the Sprint


    And last development, the hatchback
    Lack of charisma can be fatal.
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  7. #37
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    Nota,
    I referred to the shape of the slopers as pretty much resembling the Volvo. I don't know anything about the foldability of the rear seats and hence I did not claim anything.

    As far as your fixation on the "window" is concerned, lets call it the window frame (opening rear panel combining the trunk lid and the rear window) then. (In my estate I can separately open the window in the rear door).

    Can we agree on the conclusion that the slopers (I like the word, because in Dutch it means "demolishers") were ahead of their time regarding the seats, but could have been called revolutionary if they had it combined with an opening rear panel, comprising the rear window(s)???

    (And of course there are quite a few 3 side window hatchbacks, including an unlikely vehicle as the Citroen XM, which I think had 5)
    "I find the whole business of religion profoundly interesting, but it does mystify me that otherwise intelligent people take it seriously." Douglas Adams

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