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Old 05-11-2006, 09:51 AM
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"Uneconomic" diesel for Ford Territory

Ford working on diesel Territory
By Ian Porter, car industry reporter, 11/05/06

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As fuel prices rise, Ford is looking for ways to help drivers of off-road wagons ease the financial burden at the bowser.

Ford Australia is working on a diesel version of the Territory wagon even though it believes buyers cannot recoup the extra cost of the drive train through lower fuel prices.

Drivers would be far better off buying a vehicle dedicated to liquefied petroleum gas (LPG), Ford president Tom Gorman said yesterday.

"The market has been telling us it wants performance engines, more luxury, diesel engines and off-road ability in the Territory," Mr Gorman said.

He said the Territory Turbo and Territory Ghia Turbo due for release next month would satisfy the first two items but he said the increased off-road capability was "inconsistent" with the Territory.

That left diesel engines, and Ford was "working really hard on it", but only because people wanted to buy it.

"The economics do not make sense," Mr Gorman said. "If you look at the premium consumers pay for the diesel power train, they do not earn that back in the short term."

He contrasted that with the LPG option that has been available in the Falcon for years.

"The economics of a dedicated LPG car are quite real," he said. "You can earn back the premium you pay for an LPG car in about 13 months. That's a sound economic proposition."

However, Mr Gorman conceded there were other reasons why diesels were becoming more popular.

"Diesel engines are not what they were five years ago - noisy, smelly and industrial.

"Ford has many good performance diesels. They have great low-end torque, great performance feel, and they are (now) quieter. That's part of why people are moving in that direction. But you wouldn't do it if you were making a logical and rational decision."

He said the company was testing Territories with some of the diesel engines from other parts of the Ford world and it was a painstaking process.

"People want performance and refinement, and that means great NVH (noise, vibration and harshness). You don't get that by jamming a diesel engine into the car. It takes time and engineering talent to do it."
source: http://www.drive.com.au/Editorial/Ar...eID=11796&vf=2
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Old 05-11-2006, 04:03 PM
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I still think they are always going to be a bit noisy and smelly. My Auntie Nervara is a touch of both.

Atleast you can make some $$$ back with the Diesel and LPG. The Prius takes about 800,000km to make a save over the price.
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Old 05-11-2006, 04:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SlickHolden
The Prius takes about 800,000km to make a save over the price.
compared to which car?
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Old 05-11-2006, 05:23 PM
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To a normal car about the same size.
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Old 05-11-2006, 09:45 PM
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Exactly...A Prius is almost $15-20K more than a Corolla or $10-15K more than a 4cyl Camry, which is what you'd chose if you didnt get a Prius.

Ford's at a disadvantage with whatever diesel engine they chose as it'll just increase the price deficit having to import them into the country, whereas LPG engines are made here. The problem with a factory LPG Territory seems to be the tank taking up the legroom for the 3rd row of seats, so Ford could be waiting for the next Territory to be able to accomodate for that
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Old 05-12-2006, 01:40 AM
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So maybe a base model Diesel to keep the price down?
What type of Diesels have they to choose from.
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Old 05-12-2006, 01:42 AM
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Theres 2 variants of the 2.7L V6 to consider, theres a newly released one being built at the same plant as the V6, but thats reserved atm. There'd be a variety of truck diesels, but i cant think of many else that would compare with the 2.7 that Ford would have access to.
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Old 05-12-2006, 02:24 AM
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Be alright if they could build them and export them from Here.
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Old 05-15-2006, 03:00 AM
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i cant see diesel being massive, its 15c a litre more then ULP here atm. i know it gets you further to a tank but 15c a litre in a 70L+ tank is a considerable amount...
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Old 05-15-2006, 04:30 AM
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Well ignoring the higher purchase price, it ends up being more economical as you get more mileage for your dollar, same with LPG. Problem comes when people charge $5K more for the engines, and youre stuck for the next 5 years offsetting a lower running cost with a higher retail price. Alot of the small Euro's with diesel engines, if it had a petrol engine you'd have to stick premium unleaded in them anyway, as they dont work off 91 octane.
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Old 05-15-2006, 05:32 AM
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It's worth noting that new low sulphur diesel fuel is not always readily available. My local servo still doesn't have it, nor do many others in NSW and southern Queensland, due to engineering delays at Caltex refineries in Qld and Sydney
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Old 05-15-2006, 05:59 AM
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Not to mention many rural servo's will work their diesel pumps around big rigs, not VW Golf's..LPG doesnt have so many worries
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Old 05-15-2006, 06:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fpv_gtho
Well ignoring the higher purchase price, Problem comes when people charge $5K more for the engines
Brother just bought out the run out Prado GLX the petrol and diesel are the same price. The diesel in the Prado is the old style

1kzte, its not the new version DID from the hilux or hiace, he's getting 13l/100 round town and 10-11l/100 on the highway and

its only done 5000km
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Old 05-15-2006, 02:37 PM
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Diesel is maybe only good if your travailing a lot and can get the most out of it.
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Old 05-15-2006, 11:57 PM
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Most alternative fuels are like that, cuz the best way youre gunna recoup the loss for buying something more expensive is to drive more...
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