German cars VS American cars

[Egg Nog]

Sorry but I saw this lat night. The Real Heroes of Telemark. 4 Danish commandoes who spent 6 months in a freezing cabin 20 miles from the German plant that was developing heavy water for Germanys shot at the big one. They survived on Reindeer moss and when things got better reindeers stomachs. They were seriously undernourished (not to mentioned grossed out by the stomachs), cold and low on morale. Apparently they were an advance party for another commando group that were to land by glider. Gliders and WW2 didnt really go that well together. Anyhow the next part is next week which tells how the next lot of commandos and these guys launched an attack on this heavily fortified installation. I know the answer. They won, we won and Hitler lost but it was a crucial part of WW2.

What?!?

[Matra et Alpine]

Just who considers those cars to be the best in their class?

Sorry Fleet, but I struggle to see longevity as a major feature of a car.
I'm happy to replace mine regularly.
We average 10,000 miles per year.
Please try to understand the cars are built different and pointing out the DIFFERNCE as the advantage is irrelevant where that edvantage doesn't matter !! I don't want some POS that will last 20 years !!!

[Coventrysucks]

Just who considers those cars to be the best in their class?

Err...
Try the millions of people that buy them, and the combined weight of the Automotive press who seem to heap non-stop praise upon models such as the Focus, Golf, BMW 3 and 5 series.

Obviously no one as important as yourself though, so I doubt those opinions matter to you. I don't think any '60s or '70s Hot Rod magazines gave them favorable reviews, so you'll inevitably dismiss them.

What's all this bollocks about high milage American cars?
Why does that matter?
Who cares?

A BMW 325 successfully completed 1 million miles, with no work apart from routine maintainance as per the BMW service reccomendations.

After that time the engine was still as new.

[crisis]

What?!?

Somewhat off topic. Sorry, a weak moment. Just a bit to add to who contributed what in WW2. As you can see I was moved. I restrain myself.

[Fleet 500]

Sorry Fleet, but I struggle to see longevity as a major feature of a car.
I'm happy to replace mine regularly.
We average 10,000 miles per year.
Please try to understand the cars are built different and pointing out the DIFFERNCE as the advantage is irrelevant where that edvantage doesn't matter !! I don't want some POS that will last 20 years !!!

Longevity is definitely a major concern for me. For two reasons:

1. I prefer not to own a car that is in the shop every one or two months.

2. Since I like '50s-'70s U.S. cars, it is important for me that they were built to last. (Which they were.)

[Fleet 500]

Yep, millions invaded, hundreds of thousands killed.
Sorry but back then the US had little interest and wanted to stay out of it. Read congressional papers of the day to see the strong stance taken on non-involvement. Until Pearl. Eureopan nations entered the war BEFORE they're homelands were attacked to try to help their neighbours and stop the progress of fascism.

Sorry Fleet, now I'm bored with the US-myopia.

Canadians met the fiercest resistance on D-Day.
They also led an attack to tie up HUGELY SUPERIOR forces knowing they didnt' stand a chance to give the forces on the beaches west of them a better chance of getting ashore. If they hadn't it's widely accepted that Germany could have held ground for a few days and that coudl have turned the war.

So lets leave war history out of UCP.

Of course the U.S. wanted to stay out of another world war, we already had to bail out Europe in WWI. I wonder if WWII started in North American, how many European countries would have gotten involved. Anyway, let's be glad that the Allies won! The question that should be asked is... did the U.S. contribute a huge amount in WWII? With 16,353,659 Americans serving, I would say a big yes.

Nope... Omaha had the highest casualites. In the first wave, the casualties was 90%; the second wave, 80% and the third wave, 50%.

Let's leave inaccurate history out of UCP.

[Fleet 500]

You misunderstand FLeet, please try to "think out the box".
How many US journalists caem over to Europe and test drove Boneets, D'Jet's, A110s ?
Almost nobody.
To be SOOO adamant' of hanlding then it is self-evident that this journo hadn't .

But you still can't say for sure how many and what type of cars that journalist (Ray Brock) had driven and/or tested. So you really can't criticize him unless you know for sure he only tested U.S. cars (which I doubt; who knows... maybe he kept a European sports car in his driveway).

[Fleet 500]

Err...
Try the millions of people that buy them, and the combined weight of the Automotive press who seem to heap non-stop praise upon models such as the Focus, Golf, BMW 3 and 5 series.

Obviously no one as important as yourself though, so I doubt those opinions matter to you. I don't think any '60s or '70s Hot Rod magazines gave them favorable reviews, so you'll inevitably dismiss them.

What's all this bollocks about high milage American cars?
Why does that matter?
Who cares?

A BMW 325 successfully completed 1 million miles, with no work apart from routine maintainance as per the BMW service reccomendations.

After that time the engine was still as new.

I, and many other people, believe that many European (and Asian) cars are overrated.

Regarding the American longevity stories, I was just pointing out that, in the '60s and into the early '70s, there were quite a few U.S. cars that were very reliable. Countering the myth that "U.S. cars last only a few years."

I find it much more impressive when a $3,000 (price when new) full-size '60s Chevy can attain very high mileage rather than a $50,000+ import. Especially when considering that millions of Chevys were built. Considering that they were built at a high-output factory, with hundreds of cars built daily, the fact that so many lasted years and years is even more impressive.

[fpv_gtho]

maybe you think Asian and European cars are overated because European, American and Asian cars all appeal to people with different tastes

[Matra et Alpine]

Of course the U.S. wanted to stay out of another world war, we already had to bail out Europe in WWI. I wonder if WWII started in North American, how many European countries would have gotten involved. Anyway, let's be glad that the Allies won! The question that should be asked is... did the U.S. contribute a huge amount in WWII? With 16,353,659 Americans serving, I would say a big yes.

Nope... Omaha had the highest casualites. In the first wave, the casualties was 90%; the second wave, 80% and the third wave, 50%.

Let's leave inaccurate history out of UCP.

Likewise, fleet.
Those are 'wave' casualties and are messed up.
90% of the initial Sherman tank force were lost - because they sank before reaching the beach of their own volition in the choppy seas.
The heavy landing ships beached on sandbanks too far away to drop supplies.
'ducks' ferried supplies for nearly 24 hours on a continuous basis under fier.
We've had a lot of documentaries in recent months in Europe as we remembered the losses of that day.
Of 35,000 Americans landed at Omaha, 2,400 were lost.
They only managed to break out of the beach after the German defences were engaged from the rear.
DURING THIS TIME, the Canadians were tasked to hold the German Panzer division who could have reached Omaha in 12 hours and would have meant the complete end of US disembarkation. Those were the German crack division, not those newer ones with young tank drivers and all predominately the latest Tigers.

None of this takes away from the courage of the American soldiers who fought desperately to get off those beaches.

BUT, it wasn't all as portrayed in Private Ryan and Band of Brothers.
It's what wasn't told in both those features which did upset some veterans.
My father spent his last year in a UK 'veterans' hospital and I took time of work to be with him during his illness. I helped out and one of the big things they do is to get the veterans to talk of their memories. So some of the feelings I described are actually first hand to me.

This seems another example Fleet , where you've taken numbers because they give support to your view and don't look beyond them or at others.
Please try to broaden your viewpoint rather than narrowing it. I feel again, you'll just keep putting up figures in a narrow-perspective and get another poinless post like the big cars nonsense. Please give me advance notice if you will do the same as it'll save me time and I can ignore the thread now Ta

[Matra et Alpine]

Longevity is definitely a major concern for me. For two reasons:

1. I prefer not to own a car that is in the shop every one or two months.

erm, find me a Euroepan car from the 60s and 70s that needed to be in the shop every month ?
And was it a trained shop ?
Big V8s are 'dumb' engine and tuning isn't too critical. So if the valves need adjusted it can be left for a long time. Ours dont. and in the 60s and 70s a lot of people serviced their own cars.
If you ARE going to quote horror-stories please preclude it with the maintenance on the car and the mechanics doing the work. Otherwise it's possibly monkeys ruining things

2. Since I like '50s-'70s U.S. cars, it is important for me that they were built to last. (Which they were.)

For sure and I'm still not sure you've grasped the poitn I'd made a LONGtime back that in Europe THAT isnt' a major concern. Cars changed often and did lower miles. But you seem to want to use that as a differntiator without choosing totake on board the equal differentiator of size, perfromacne and handling. Can't get it both ways.No matter how much you try

[Matra et Alpine]

I, and many other people, believe that many European (and Asian) cars are overrated.

Regarding the American longevity stories, I was just pointing out that, in the '60s and into the early '70s, there were quite a few U.S. cars that were very reliable. Countering the myth that "U.S. cars last only a few years."

who said that ?
They're wrong, big lazy V8s will run forever without maintentance.
LOTS of steel means less rust impact and easier to repair.

I find it much more impressive when a $3,000 (price when new) full-size '60s Chevy can attain very high mileage rather than a $50,000+ import. Especially when considering that millions of Chevys were built. Considering that they were built at a high-output factory, with hundreds of cars built daily, the fact that so many lasted years and years is even more impressive.

Again you compare the cars you saw imported.
VERY few people in Euroep owned a $50,000 car.
The first car I drove in, my dad had bought new for $1000 - a Ford Anglia 105E. So please stop this stupid comparison. If you're going to compare, it should be equals.
60s Mercedes saloons ( not the high end limos the US saw ) survive equally well.
60s Morris Oxfords were built like tanks and seemingly over 50% are still running in India !!!!
Fashion also comes into it in Europe, we tended to change cars more often just because they "looked old". A part of our short-term love affair with individual cars So most original shape Morris Oxfords were pushed aside to be replaced with the new 'modern' box shape

[andy.muc]

Why not keep it simple?
Take all categories of cars.
Then pick the best car out of each category.
You won't find too many US manufacturers in that list.
But you surely will find some German cars...

[doylede]

Cadillac CTS-V - 2004:

Engine
Cylinders: V8
Displacement: 5667 cc
Horsepower: 400 bhp @ 6000 rpm
Torque: 395 lb-ft @ 4800 rpm

Performance
0-60 mph: 4.6 sec
Top Speed: 155 mph
Price: $49,995

Audi S4 - 2003

Engine:
Cylinders: 8
Displacement: 4163 cc
Horsepower: 344 bhp @ 7000 rpm
Torque: 302 lb-ft @ 3500 rpm

Perfomance
0-60 mph: 5.0 sec
Top Speed: 155 mph
Price: $45,000

DING!
Caddy 1
Audi 0

Is someone keeping score?

[Fleet 500]

maybe you think Asian and European cars are overated because European, American and Asian cars all appeal to people with different tastes

I think Asian and European cars are overrated because they are.