oi holden fans

[SlickHolden]

GM only no GM-H first up but yes they were imports at first, But have you ever herd of the holden body builders that built bus bodys and chev bodys and more can't remember maybe mini also.
It was them with the SA goverment and others that raised the cash up and built the lot by themselfs, And right there and then they should have told them to get you know what. But maybe they said in the long turm we might not get through by ourselfs and stayed with GM 60%\40% something like that it was. So there are aussie's out there that still own a peace of holden

[fpv_gtho]

ive seen books about the history of General Motors - Holden in Australia right back to 1919 so im pretty sure about that, a friend of my mums also has a poster of all the GM-H cars sold in Australia that starts with i think its a 1919 Chev Tourer, and the latest on there i think is an SS Torana hatch. You can get the books on Ford Australia as well, although i dont know if they do it from 1904 when the first Ford reached here or 1925 when the first Model T went off the production lines

[SlickHolden]

Holden has dropped the GMH and is just Holden LTD now. i got it rong before it was holdens motor bodys builders (HMBB) that merged with GM they were GMA before GMH. That's why people have a thing with holden cause there is a huge part that is All Australian about it from J.A Holden & Co. Now holden has respect in GM but not world wide and will never.
You ask a American do they know a 2001-2002 chev lumina ss they say i have herd of that, Then say do you know holden, What !!! how is he ???

[fpv_gtho]

i was aware of the GM-H to Holden LTD thing, i think that happened in 1998 or 2000, but what im getting at is GM-H didnt start with the 48-215 which i suppose your not disagreeing with.

[Falcon500]

Now this has quite alot of misinformation in this thread now im going to straighten this all out....Holden went into body building in the 1920s...they built bodys for GM ,Dodge ,Fiat ,chrysler ,Studebaker ,Overland ,Hupmobile ,Essex ,Dort and Durant (why wont it letit scroll back up?) But the most widely known cars they built of this time was the 1929 GMA Chevrolet Holden body....the most popular and most australian content THEY BUILT...
BUT even before this was all heppening ford was contracting body builder to make their Model T fords the car had been selling here since 1908! But the body builder lost all their contracts in 1925 when the Ford motor company of australia was established...the cars where useing canadain built parts and where advertising made in the british empier....the car was also dubbed the squatters joy by most locals....But later in the year the cars where fully assemsbled,tuned for conditions and had a lot of parts locally made and where known as the Geelong model T ford....
Also holdens first car which is often called australians own is a laugh and a half....its an ex Oldsmobile design which was canned....it was designed and tested in america....the grey engine (and therefore all holden 6 cylenders up till the VK) was a variation of a chevrolet engine and all the cast's for components where also made in america...we at least did change the cosmetics (the square head lights and nostil Grille's wernt very becomming of the car) but as i said we made the cosmetics and refined it and other then the intial starting it we built them all in this country....so rember this story next time you try and argue which is more australian holden as australian as mom and apple pie
Also on another note on a similar tone holden doesnt have a good track record with building there own cars the 48-215 (FX) for starters,The torana better known in other countrys as a Vauxhall Viva to other countrys...at first it was just a holden badge...the only big change they made was when they dropped their 6 in it....but it later took on its own life and is truely the australian holden (along with one other model) the camira was an international J car...the Gemini is an Isuzu....the Commadore was origonally a Opel design and still draws alot from its opel counterpart.....
as i mentioned before the later model toranas where as australian as they came but by 65 holden somewhat(they still drew a bit of america getting some testing done there) with the HD which shared little in common with nearly all of GM's Branches (the EH still relied heavily off american styling and some equipment)....its followed the trends but didnt follow the look of american cars hardly at all (it grew in size...which was the trend ) But showing how slowly we move out of trends and into something diffrent the HD sales slowed down...people saying the car looked too unusual...and the media didnt like the sharp edged gaurds as they called them saying they where a danger to pedestrians....Incidently this is they year ford was on the rocks and done the reliability trial of the XPs which where much improved for our conditions then even the substansially refubished XM series...so 65 was a time of big change in our motoring industry And ona fianl note the fastest lapping car of 65 at bathurst was not the lotus cortinas but Studebaker cruisers (just like my fathers)...why they didnt win Big car+500 mile race+Drum brakes all round= 15 minute pit stops to rebuild the brakes...something the team had down to an art form.....but still took too long they came 5th

[SlickHolden]

Thank you so you also agree that holden is a meat pie and ford is a a american pie
Ford came from over seas with GM. But holden was always here, They GM didnt left a finger we were told to go and do it by ourselfs so we did and there you have it holden born and breed Australian forget the cars im talking about holden as Australian
1945 • GMHResponds to Australian Federal Government invitation to produce an Australian car. so they did without help from GM they raised the money and did it them selfs they could have went on there own right there and then. Could ford Australia do that no. And the 48-215 tell me a car that isn't designed from other cars. Ford Ba shares the Blade control irs with focus. You show me a car and i'll pick bits at it and match them with anything around the world as below seen something like this before

[crisis]

Now this has quite alot of misinformation in this thread now im going to straighten this all out....Holden went into body building in the 1920s...they built bodys for GM ,Dodge ,Fiat ,chrysler ,Studebaker ,Overland ,Hupmobile ,Essex ,Dort and Durant (why wont it letit scroll back up?) But the most widely known cars they built of this time was the 1929 GMA Chevrolet Holden body....the most popular and most australian content THEY BUILT...
BUT even before this was all heppening ford was contracting body builder to make their Model T fords the car had been selling here since 1908! But the body builder lost all their contracts in 1925 when the Ford motor company of australia was established...the cars where useing canadain built parts and where advertising made in the british empier....the car was also dubbed the squatters joy by most locals....But later in the year the cars where fully assemsbled,tuned for conditions and had a lot of parts locally made and where known as the Geelong model T ford....
Also holdens first car which is often called australians own is a laugh and a half....its an ex Oldsmobile design which was canned....it was designed and tested in america....the grey engine (and therefore all holden 6 cylenders up till the VK) was a variation of a chevrolet engine and all the cast's for components where also made in america...we at least did change the cosmetics (the square head lights and nostil Grille's wernt very becomming of the car) but as i said we made the cosmetics and refined it and other then the intial starting it we built them all in this country....so rember this story next time you try and argue which is more australian holden as australian as mom and apple pie
Also on another note on a similar tone holden doesnt have a good track record with building there own cars the 48-215 (FX) for starters,The torana better known in other countrys as a Vauxhall Viva to other countrys...at first it was just a holden badge...the only big change they made was when they dropped their 6 in it....but it later took on its own life and is truely the australian holden (along with one other model) the camira was an international J car...the Gemini is an Isuzu....the Commadore was origonally a Opel design and still draws alot from its opel counterpart.....
as i mentioned before the later model toranas where as australian as they came but by 65 holden somewhat(they still drew a bit of america getting some testing done there) with the HD which shared little in common with nearly all of GM's Branches (the EH still relied heavily off american styling and some equipment)....its followed the trends but didnt follow the look of american cars hardly at all (it grew in size...which was the trend ) But showing how slowly we move out of trends and into something diffrent the HD sales slowed down...people saying the car looked too unusual...and the media didnt like the sharp edged gaurds as they called them saying they where a danger to pedestrians....Incidently this is they year ford was on the rocks and done the reliability trial of the XPs which where much improved for our conditions then even the substansially refubished XM series...so 65 was a time of big change in our motoring industry And ona fianl note the fastest lapping car of 65 at bathurst was not the lotus cortinas but Studebaker cruisers (just like my fathers)...why they didnt win Big car+500 mile race+Drum brakes all round= 15 minute pit stops to rebuild the brakes...something the team had down to an art form.....but still took too long they came 5th

The original Holden company produced saddles and horse carriages. The company established by Sir Edward Wheewall Holden in 1917. When he realised that motor cars would be the future of transport, unlike the beliefs of many in those days, he started a plant to build bodys for imported chassis.
GM aquired Holden in 1934 and appointed Laurence John Harnett from England to run the company. It was Harnett who kept the Holden Australian despite its influences. GM was reluctant to persue an "Australian" car and preffered to export Chevs etc. Interestingly GM was not a manufacturer but a holding company that bought manufacturers. It made an offer to Henry FOrd for the Ford Motor Company but Henry refused. Imagine the car industry today if he had said yes! Also the red motor is an over square design which is different from the grey motor. The bore size maxed out to about 138 and as such was a different block from the red motor which went to 202 cu.
As far as being "Australian" you can argue over details. All cars contain components sourced and made in different countries. What is unique about Commodores and Falcons is that they represent the few examples of large rear wheel drive family sedans that are not in the luxury category. Try buying a 200kw+ RWD sedan for under AUS$50 large anywhere else in the world.

[fpv_gtho]

Ford Ba shares the Blade control irs with focus. You show me a car and i'll pick bits at it and match them with anything around the world as below seen something like this before

The Control Blade IRS is just a design Ford has come up with for their multi link rear suspension, that until the BA had only been used in small and medium sized FWD and AWD cars such as the Focus and X-Type. The BA was the first large and first RWD Ford car to use the suspension, so although it works the same way as the IRS in the Focus, its still very much different

[Falcon500]

Thank you so you also agree that holden is a meat pie and ford is a a american pie
Ford came from over seas with GM. But holden was always here, They GM didnt left a finger we were told to go and do it by ourselfs so we did and there you have it holden born and breed Australian forget the cars im talking about holden as Australian
1945 • GMHResponds to Australian Federal Government invitation to produce an Australian car. so they did without help from GM they raised the money and did it them selfs they could have went on there own right there and then. Could ford Australia do that no. And the 48-215 tell me a car that isn't designed from other cars. Ford Ba shares the Blade control irs with focus. You show me a car and i'll pick bits at it and match them with anything around the world as below seen something like this before

No i said holden is as american as mom and apple pie (american clean family ideas)....
Well they are australian yet they where yank designs....
It wasnt an invitation it was alot of polatics from Sir laurence Hartnett (who later left to buld the Hartnett all stainless steel car but coulden convince the goverment this time...he also campaigned for australia to by VW but that also failed)
At the end of ww2. Hartnett convinced the federal goverment that the country needed a car builtin australia for australians.He persuaded his parent company to cooperate and the project began.... a quote from my sources...
Ford australia did the same thing although it wasnt based on a canned idea from a subsidury.....It shared a common basis from the american falcon and mustang which made it very easy to add a v8 too (something the police liked...other then victorian coppas they used studebakers) also international sucsess for the falcon was achieved in the rally scene by the Falcon sprint of the time which also acheived better 1/4 mile times then the mustang...the car at the time that was dominating the ATCC....
The name holden was first used when English migrant Jasmes alexander Holden set up a leather and saddlery buisness in Adeladein 1854. This firm became Holden and Frost, which expanded to the point point where it was building horse drawn cariages and coaches. when Henery Frost died. James holdens son Henery (very popular name) bought out his intrest. In 1917 Holden was one of several companys which seized the golden opputinity to become body builders when the australian goverment placed a severe limit on the import of complete motor vehicals...
So your right crisis just had a bit to add there also GM is a family as they liked to be called not a company
And true the block is diffrent and the head ismore free flowing but stilla suprsingly similar design
And very good crisis your lastpoint really does ring true

[SlickHolden]

ford would be the company that has the USA idea's AU is really a taurus in many ways holden rejects US cars now a days GM has asked them to import the caddilac corvette and they dont want them here cause aussie's dont like yank cars as ford found out with AU.
Still my point is that (HMBB) are the aussies that have a big share in holden. They merged with GMA

[SlickHolden]

Why we are on the subject someone anyone remember why ford threating to pull out of australia in the 90's ??

[Falcon500]

Fords AU was not a tuaraus in any speaking of the word...it was fully designed here and was following the european trend which all cars are following...the commadore is no exeception...also we are basically the only country to think the car was ugly...the europans loved the car.....
So where did yu get this idea that it was a yank car? also holden does import these cars in small numbers...and aussies dont liek yank cars? thats a totoally stupid thing to say as we use their drivelines and even their cars in previous years...what aussies dont like is the price tag that follows...i tell you givent the choice between a camaro and a clubsport if the price tag was alot closer together i can tell where my prefernce would lie.....
Yes i do...while on the subject rember holdens serious financial strife when the XD falcon was a runaway sucsess and Holden had to be bailed out by GM?
Yeah they merged when GM australia couldent cope with the heavy financial burden of importing full cars which was gm's prefrence at the time...also on a slight note the company that produced chryler actually up staged everyone by producing the first all steel body in the 1930s...everyone else used timber concield with fabric because they didnt have adiquite presses....

[SlickHolden]

Fords AU was not a tuaraus in any speaking of the word...it was fully designed here and was following the european trend which all cars are following...the commadore is no exeception...also we are basically the only country to think the car was ugly...the europans loved the car.....
So where did yu get this idea that it was a yank car? also holden does import these cars in small numbers...and aussies dont liek yank cars? thats a totoally stupid thing to say as we use their drivelines and even their cars in previous years...what aussies dont like is the price tag that follows...i tell you givent the choice between a camaro and a clubsport if the price tag was alot closer together i can tell where my prefernce would lie.....
Yes i do...while on the subject rember holdens serious financial strife when the XD falcon was a runaway sucsess and Holden had to be bailed out by GM?
Yeah they merged when GM australia couldent cope with the heavy financial burden of importing full cars which was gm's prefrence at the time...also on a slight note the company that produced chryler actually up staged everyone by producing the first all steel body in the 1930s...everyone else used timber concield with fabric because they didnt have adiquite presses....

People like the tuaraus over seas and that why the liked the AU they fit together really well both have that ugly shape. Know wounder why GM is asking holden to design them a US car. Holden has payed back GM with intrest by now Holden really is a big hitter in GM now, How about MG they built a car with a aussie diff the hydratrack. Why did Ford threaten to up and go in the 90's ?

[Falcon500]

Well i wouldent say it has qwuite the areodynamic shape the taurus has....australian conditions limit this factor....cooling need to be much more supirior for possible desert travel....
Thier asking them now? i though the holden was based off a gm world car platform.....and now wonder why their redesigning the pannels for the american market if their so good looking their even changeing the concepts pannels for the european markets.....
And wasnt the threat about flagging goverment fleet sales? among other things...if not then do enlighten me.....

[fpv_gtho]

ford would be the company that has the USA idea's AU is really a taurus in many ways holden rejects US cars now a days GM has asked them to import the caddilac corvette and they dont want them here cause aussie's dont like yank cars as ford found out with AU.
Still my point is that (HMBB) are the aussies that have a big share in holden. They merged with GMA

I take it your talking about the Caddy XLR? Holden at the moment have no plans whatsoever to bring that into the country, but i think they are toying with the idea of introducing the STS which is about the size of the Statesman/Caprice which would be a sound investment against the Chrysler 300C. Holdens new General Manager, Denny Mooney also wants to introduce the Chev Trailblazer to replace the Jackaroo which is still lurking around in places.

The AU was never based of the Taurus, or carried any US DNA. The only real American influence it had, was its "New Edge" design (that rather turned out a bit too curvy, but in the wrong places) that came from the Ka, GT90, Focus, Mondeo, Puma, Taurus and to some extent the Mustang. That was curtesy of Jacques Nasser pushing the final design through before he left for Detroit.

The only reason i can think of Detroit wanting to shut us down was to cut costs or something.