muscle is better

[Blitz_]

*shock*

dear god! y didnt some1 tell me this before, i could have bought that tv the other day

[KnifeEdge_2K1]

its funny you buy a honda dump alot of money into it and its still slow

as for a muscle car they are already fast and look better

in a strait line maybe, thats cuz most of them have solid rear axles and suspension that would turn jello into pudding (some of you might not get this)

and american muscle cars are horribly inefficient and even tho they put out alot of torque and horsepower they have low redlines which means longer ratios which means lower wheel torque, a honda engine usually revs higher gives less torque but can accomodate shorter ratios and its drivetrain and engine is usually ligher letting it spin up faster

[CdocZ]

The instant I saw this thread.........I knew there was going to be a bash-athon.

Then I saw the first post, and all that did was confirm it.

[Quiggs]

The instant I saw this thread.........I knew there was going to be a bash-athon.

Then I saw the first post, and all that did was confirm it.

Bingo. These threads make my head hurt.

[Vindesh17]

since theres no point cant one of the mods lock this topic?

[shadow]

oooh... controversial!
say something, back it up with real evidence. simple.

[Lets Gekiga In]

its funny you buy a honda dump alot of money into it and its still slow

as for a muscle car they are already fast and look better

LOLlercoaster

[AbsolutePower]

This is for the assclown that started this thread... This is how I roll, Nissan styling, Chevy power.

[Matra et Alpine]

This is for the assclown that started this thread... This is how I roll, Nissan styling, Chevy power.

Welcome

2 suggestions.

Stay quiet for a little while before having the arrogance to make comments like that.

and

Egg-Nog test please . The standard UCP Ownership challeng, you'll find the threadwith a simple search. Post a pic of the car with a sheet of paper with your UCP nick handwritten on it.

[Fleet 500]

in a strait line maybe, thats cuz most of them have solid rear axles and suspension that would turn jello into pudding (some of you might not get this)

It is a myth that all '60s American cars couldn't handle.
Here is a photo of a '64 Plymouth Valiant V-8 driven by Chrysler engineer Scott Harvey who won two road races in one day at Harewood Acres, Ontario, Canada. Harvey was big on V-8's torque, shown here in action against a struggling Austin Mini.
The solid rear axle doesn't seem to be hurting the Mopar!

[Fleet 500]

And here is a '66 Dodge Dart V-8.
The caption says, "It didn't take long for the sports car racing world to learn about the 273 engine. In 1966 Bob Tullius campaigned the Group 44 Dodge Dart on the new Baby Grand sports car circuit showing a lot of high-buck imported cars the quick way to the winner's circle!"
It doesn't look like the suspension is turning to "jello" on that car!

[IBrake4Rainbows]

1st picture of "The Mini Struggling" kind of looks like the Mini is just finishing a corner, while the Valiant has rounded the bend.

But it is true that not all American cars of the era couldn't handle.

It's Generalisations like this which get people into hot water.

[Matra et Alpine]

It is a myth that all '60s American cars couldn't handle.
Here is a photo of a '64 Plymouth Valiant V-8 driven by Chrysler engineer Scott Harvey who won two road races in one day at Harewood Acres, Ontario, Canada. Harvey was big on V-8's torque, shown here in action against a struggling Austin Mini.
The solid rear axle doesn't seem to be hurting the Mopar!

ACTUALLY Fleet what that shows is typical Mini versus big engine behemoth's I remember well from the days of the Ford Galaxie. You're looking at 850cc versus 7000cc or thereabouts

The Plymouth is sitting flat and stable as it has exited the corner. The Mini is still IN the corner and doing the classic Mini "scrub to the outside".

The Galaxie - and by inference the Plymouth - would have been slower in to the corner and round it, then on the exit of the corner and the suspension settles down the car uses it's power to pull easily away. Meantime the Mini line was to catch up LOTS on braking, usually taking an inner line and scrub the wheels on full lock till the exit and continue a moderate acceleration.

They are 2 ENTIRELY DIFFERENT lines and meant that on some courses the Minis could win because by the time the bigger cars settled down in the corners to be able to apply the power the Mini's higher corner speed meant they overtook them. Then the challenge would be staying there while the LOT more power cars would out accelerate and top speed to the next corner. The BETS races were when the straight provided just enough time for the Galaxie etc to get ahead by the next corner and then a sequence of corners where the Minis would catch, pass and create a small gap which would THEN be eaten up and overtaken on the next longish straight. It was great Racing of 2 different styles and capabilities.

So, the picture tells you nothing in reality

[Matra et Alpine]

And here is a '66 Dodge Dart V-8.
The caption says, "It didn't take long for the sports car racing world to learn about the 273 engine. In 1966 Bob Tullius campaigned the Group 44 Dodge Dart on the new Baby Grand sports car circuit showing a lot of high-buck imported cars the quick way to the winner's circle!"
It doesn't look like the suspension is turning to "jello" on that car!

Sory Fleet, are we lookign at the same pictures. ??



LOOK at the amount of squat !!

The rear tyres have lost grip, so the suspension is no longer affected by the centrifugal forces. WHAT you are trying to infer from the picture you cannot for that reason !!

Intrigued, never heard of "baby grand" race series and can't find anything with Google. What formula were these run to, what tracks was it on ? I did find some info on the 273 which looks like it put out 275bhp in normal road use. Pretty good for 66 I coudl imagine bringing that power and torque would shake a few old teams

I woudl suggest you are looking at a car with soft(-ish) springs and heavy anti roll bars to try to tame the pitch. Hence it means the rears let go easier rather than maintain contact with roll.

[Fleet 500]

1st picture of "The Mini Struggling" kind of looks like the Mini is just finishing a corner, while the Valiant has rounded the bend.

But it is true that not all American cars of the era couldn't handle.

It's Generalisations like this which get people into hot water.

I think they meant "the mini struggling" as to trying to keep up in acceleration.

And, yes, generalizing can't really be made about handling.