haha well that sounds great FOR YOU. i'm still in a pickle here. I think i'm just gonna get the GReddy Ti-C Catback and say F the duals
haha well that sounds great FOR YOU. i'm still in a pickle here. I think i'm just gonna get the GReddy Ti-C Catback and say F the duals
Need Speed
For anyone who was involved in the torque vs. power argument (which I don't want to start again) take a look at post 35, 42&44 at the link. I think I've done a very good job integrating both sides, and come out with what you'll all accept as the "correct" answer.
torque and power explained
If you want to talk about it any further pm me though... I'm really not looking for another 37 pages of....
you are surely aware of the introduction of the diesel powered LMP1 cars in sportscar racing. The comments of petrol engined driven LMP1 cars boil down to: "Because of their massive torque advantage they reach topspeed already after 200-300 meters at the long straights, we can only get to them at the end of the straight, when it is too late to overtake them....."
"I find the whole business of religion profoundly interesting, but it does mystify me that otherwise intelligent people take it seriously." Douglas Adams
Yes and that torque advantage is also a massive power advantage at low RPM... Giving them much greater launch power from corners.... Also from what you said I would think the diesel engined cars have a lower top speed?...
BTW I love the Audi and Peugeot diesel racers...
And Bob has got the right idea... thanks for the link
Last edited by hightower99; 07-12-2007 at 05:18 AM.
Power, whether measured as HP, PS, or KW is what accelerates cars and gets it up to top speed. Power also determines how far you take a wall when you hit it
Engine torque is an illusion.
No ... it's a great TORQUE advantage ... torque is what gets you going.
Power is what keeps you going.The regs limit the number of gears so the diesels have an artificial limit appliedAlso from what you said I would think the diesel engined cars have a lower top speed?...
Let's leave the on-going 37 pages to that thread then Just it forgot about the dynamics of gearing and has mixed advantage and disadvantageAnd Bob has got the right idea... thanks for the link
"A woman without curves is like a road without bends, you might get to your destination quicker but the ride is boring as hell'
hahaha so having more torque doesn't make any more power in your world? Torque and power are inseperable the only difference is that Power includes a time variable.... but lets leave that for the proper thread
So why can't they have a tall final gear to achieve a higher top speed?Originally Posted by Matra
Power, whether measured as HP, PS, or KW is what accelerates cars and gets it up to top speed. Power also determines how far you take a wall when you hit it
Engine torque is an illusion.
Didn't say that. I recommend reading the 37 pages worth of coverage on why TORQUE is important in acceleration
Because then you either have a horrible gap before top or you compromise even MORE the lower gears by making them wider.So why can't they have a tall final gear to achieve a higher top speed?
This is why most discussions on torque v power get confused. Gearing plays a part and the DYNAMIC issues involved in ratio selection are very difficult to resolve. Hence why TORQUE helps
"A woman without curves is like a road without bends, you might get to your destination quicker but the ride is boring as hell'
Power, whether measured as HP, PS, or KW is what accelerates cars and gets it up to top speed. Power also determines how far you take a wall when you hit it
Engine torque is an illusion.
I'm not the one that says torque isn't.
Correct, for speed in a gear you need power. For acceleration you need torque. It's this connection you dont' seem to understandand why power is important
Nobody has EVER said power wasn't important.
Only you are saying torque is NOT important.
Do YOU now understand
"A woman without curves is like a road without bends, you might get to your destination quicker but the ride is boring as hell'
Power, whether measured as HP, PS, or KW is what accelerates cars and gets it up to top speed. Power also determines how far you take a wall when you hit it
Engine torque is an illusion.
Oh dear, do we REALLY need to go over this.
PLEASE stop thinking the theoretical here.
In the world of PRACTICAL application you can't have a huge power, little torque solution. Why not ? Because you don't manage to get enough torque to overcome friction. So you see you never REACH reasonable power coz you can't move ... or accelerate very very slowly until you have enough gearing ratio in your favour for the gearbox to multiply the torque.
So torque is a MUST to get moving. You can chose to imagine you are generating torque by using power and a reduction gearbox. But then you've broken the power/torque calculation relationship for the closed system. So it's NOT comparable.
As I'd said. THinking of gears and engines in a static configuration is flawed. They are a dynamic.
"A woman without curves is like a road without bends, you might get to your destination quicker but the ride is boring as hell'
You make it sound like power and torque are not infact bound to each other...
Yes you need to have enough torque to make enough power at low rpm to overcome friction to get moving... This is what I have always said. The engine makes the torque and the power. A gearbox trades RPM for torque in a locked ratio(ie. if you half the rpm you get twice the torque you can't half the rpm and get 4 times the torque).
For someone who likes thinking about dynamic systems you certainly like clinging to static forces... Power is dynamic torque is not.
Power, whether measured as HP, PS, or KW is what accelerates cars and gets it up to top speed. Power also determines how far you take a wall when you hit it
Engine torque is an illusion.
In what way ? I've NEVER seperated them. Only you say torque doesn't provide the force that THEN over time provides the power. So without enough torque no power ( ie work done )
and aero drag ( that's a friction )Yes you need to have enough torque to make enough power at low rpm to overcome friction to get moving... This is what I have always said.
Oops, there we go torque is a must
Finally thinking outside of the engineering book. A vehicle is a closed system WITH it's environment.
"locked ratio" ... :burst into tears: It's folly to consider only one gear. A gearbox has a range of ratios and in each of these TORQUE is requried to overcome the "friction" in the closed system - ie hills, air and mating surfaces.The engine makes the torque and the power. A gearbox trades RPM for torque in a locked ratio(ie. if you half the rpm you get twice the torque you can't half the rpm and get 4 times the torque).
No. You are making HUGE assumption.For someone who likes thinking about dynamic systems you certainly like clinging to static forces... Power is dynamic torque is not.
YOU keep on about it's only power.
Power is a CALCULATION of the application of a force over TIME.
BUT acceleration is determiend by FORCE.
So Q-E-D
Now to grasp this you may have to think a little harder on the quantisation of dynamic systems, but that shoudln't be too hard for a 20 year old. Only us octogenarians "struggle" with stuff
"A woman without curves is like a road without bends, you might get to your destination quicker but the ride is boring as hell'
"I find the whole business of religion profoundly interesting, but it does mystify me that otherwise intelligent people take it seriously." Douglas Adams
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