Convert MKIV Supra automatic to manual

[Ferrer]

I prefer RWD as well, but I wouldn't completely vilify FWD. For street use, modern FWDs are so good you'll never know what wheels are drive. Even performance wise, in one Best Motoring test the RSX Type-S outran an RX-8 around TR Motegi...

I drove an Integra GSR for many years and it didn't have any of the bad qualities of FWD. Didn't have enough torque for torque steer and it didn't have terminal understeer, you could coax it to lift-throttle or tap the brakes and get it to oversteer a little.

Have you had tons of bad experiences with FWD, what gives??

Well I wouldn't be so sure about FWD. You see for me when driving one of the most important things is the steering, and FWD corrupts the steering. I cuases torque steer and understeer when you are really pushing. In the Mini I notice this and it's not especially powerful or torquey (170bhp/162ft-lb). I'd definitely be driving a RWD car just for the purity of the steering if I had the choice.

[johnnynumfiv]

So how much racing do you think you are going to have to do to make back the money that you are going to be spending on the car?

[Guest]

IIRC, he said, "there is no point in having a fwd car, I want to buy and tune a RWD car so I can street race and make a profit on my investment," or something along those lines.

i haeva bad feeling about this...

[PerfAdv]

Well I wouldn't be so sure about FWD. You see for me when driving one of the most important things is the steering, and FWD corrupts the steering. I cuases torque steer and understeer when you are really pushing. In the Mini I notice this and it's not especially powerful or torquey (170bhp/162ft-lb). I'd definitely be driving a RWD car just for the purity of the steering if I had the choice.

FWD and even AWD offer some performance advantages but with power running through the steering wheels they never have a fluid and consistent feel at the steering wheel. Honda's are ideal with FWD, as ideal as FWD can be anyway, because they have light aluminum drivetrains that lack low-end torque. So, the weight on the fronts isn't as much of a penalty and the low torque hardly shows up a torque steer. (Integra GSR: 170 hp/~130 lb/ft @6,000)

In Hifi stereos, camera lenses as well as cars, it's better to have separation of tasks. For that reason I'd take RWD, separation of tasks is the best way to go. Wheels to steer and wheels to power. BUT, in lower powered cars it isn't really an issue. The feel isn't pure but the fact that a RSX type-S can outrun an RX-8 says something for FWD...

[kingofthering]

So how much racing do you think you are going to have to do to make back the money that you are going to be spending on the car?

if you've seen the movie the fast and the furious, you can make 5K, and a white boy car if you win

[h00t_h00t]

FWD and even AWD offer some performance advantages but with power running through the steering wheels they never have a fluid and consistent feel at the steering wheel.

Thats just silly, the amount of feedback from the steering comes from the quality of the componants used, it has nothing to do with which wheels are driven. Most modern cars are fitted with electronic power steering and that system gives little to no feedback at all to the driver so the steering always feels fluid.

[Ferrer]

The feel isn't pure but the fact that a RSX type-S can outrun an RX-8 says something for FWD...

Well it says it's faster, but I honestly prefer to enjoy the drive rather than arrive before anyone elses...

[h00t_h00t]

If you're important, people wait. :P

[PerfAdv]

Thats just silly, the amount of feedback from the steering comes from the quality of the componants used, it has nothing to do with which wheels are driven. Most modern cars are fitted with electronic power steering and that system gives little to no feedback at all to the driver so the steering always feels fluid.

No, what's silly is that you don't get what's being said.

Torque steer will tug at the steering wheel and it has everything to do with what wheels are driven. Feedback wasn't being discussed but any assist will spoil the feel if you're speaking from a purist POV...

[PerfAdv]

Well it says it's faster, but I honestly prefer to enjoy the drive rather than arrive before anyone elses...

Agreed. I was just pointing out the competence and sometimes advantage of FWD at lower to medium power levels.

[h00t_h00t]

No, what's silly is that you don't get what's being said.

Torque steer will tug at the steering wheel and it has everything to do with what wheels are driven. Feedback wasn't being discussed but any assist will spoil the feel if you're speaking from a purist POV...

I do get what is being said, you think that there is never a smooth and consistant feeling to the steering in a front wheel drive car, which is completely untrue as torque steer only occurs under heavy acceleration. When traveling at a steady pace or slowing down the steering is as perfect as any other car.

Torque steer is a tiny aspect of driving a FWD, people only make a point about it because its different.

[Ferrer]

I do get what is being said, you think that there is never a smooth and consistant feeling to the steering in a front wheel drive car, which is completely untrue as torque steer only occurs under heavy acceleration. When traveling at a steady pace or slowing down the steering is as perfect as any other car.

Torque steer is a tiny aspect of driving a FWD, people only make a point about it because its different.

Of course for a sensible family car front wheel drive makes a lot of sense, since they offer better space amongst other things. But taking into account that this is a car forum, front driven cars have a number of problems rear driven ones don't, even when going at moderate speeds.

[PerfAdv]

I do get what is being said, you think that there is never a smooth and consistant feeling to the steering in a front wheel drive car, which is completely untrue as torque steer only occurs under heavy acceleration. When traveling at a steady pace or slowing down the steering is as perfect as any other car.

Torque steer is a tiny aspect of driving a FWD, people only make a point about it because its different.

True, and in most low to mid-powered cars FWD isn't an issue.

What's silly is I've taken both sides of the argument in this thread, for and against FWD... Really though, FWD is maligned more than it should be. Granted it is a budget design, it's still very competent for everything but high performance.

One advantage of FWD to RWD is more efficient power transfer to the wheels. The RWD usually have more than 10% loss of power, as measured at the crank versus at the wheel, FWDs generally lose less than 10%.

Another is the traction advantage in rain and snow, pretty critical for a do-it-all family car...

[h00t_h00t]

front driven cars have a number of problems rear driven ones don't, even when going at moderate speeds.

List them then, add something to the discussion instead of making bold statements with no supporting arguments.

[2ndclasscitizen]

Aquaplaning is worse in a FWD than RWD car, damage to front suspension can cause a write off in a FWD car where it wouldn't in a RWD car due to the drivetrain being in the front, front brakes take a lot more force as they are taking the cars momentum as well as fighting the drive from the engine, driveline damage all but renders the car uncontrollable (I know this from personal experience)