Actual Horsepower Of '60s/'70s Muscle Cars

[Fleet 500]

ALL of "Fleets" fantasies fall apart once THE TRUTH comes out.

"Fantasies." Lol. Except I back up my fantasies with info and sources.

Those Baldwin cars were FAST - by late 60s/early 70s standards. It looks like the absolute hottest of them that were remotely streetable made right around 390 SAE NET HP. (A new Viper makes 600 SAE NET HP and would suck the headlights out of all of them - particularly once it got full traction.)

A new Viper (an exotic, btw, NOT a muscle car) can run better than 11s? And remember you're comparing a car with modern tires to one with '60s/'70s tires and 30+ years of technology. Those Baldwin-Motion Camaros were affordable for most people, a Viper certainly isn't!

And those Baldwins were ALL DONE by 125 MPH! My V6 Acura will top 150 MPH and that's not even a fast car!

Why would a car meant for drag racing be concerned about top speed? However, just put on some 3.07 or 2.73 gears if an owner wants a high top speed.

[henk4]

"Fantasies." Lol. Except I back up my fantasies with info and sources.

I think Harddrive has come up with far more "factual" facts than your "info and sources"...

[Fleet 500]

Anyone who thinks the 60s "musclecar" engines made a lot of power by today's standards is on drugs.

Here is a dyno test of a ZL-1 427 Chevy. "Back in the day," that was THE horsepower king. It required 103 octane fuel and Chevy built just 69 of them. The engine option alone cost more than the rest of the car(!)

CRG Research Report - COPO 427

Gee, it made a whole 376 SAE NET HP.

Here is an article from Musclear Review, Feb/Mar, 1997, about the ZL-1 427.

Check out the note at the bottom of the black box:
"Factory output (430 hp @ 5200 rpm) was greatly underrated. The original ZL-1 engine installed in the Daytona yellow ZL-1 Corvette, Serial No. 29219, was rebuilt by Stuart Matthews Engineering in Mechanicsville, Pennsylvania, while the car was owned by Wayne Walker. After rebuilding, the engine was dynoed by Eanes Automotive in Richmond, Virginia. Dyno results: 490 hp @ 6000 rpm and 523 hp @ 7000 rpm."

[henk4]

Here is an article from Musclear Review, Feb/Mar, 1997, about the ZL-1 427.

Check out the note at the bottom of the black box:
"Factory output (430 hp @ 5200 rpm) was greatly underrated. The original ZL-1 engine installed in the Daytona yellow ZL-1 Corvette, Serial No. 29219, was rebuilt by Stuart Matthews Engineering in Mechanicsville, Pennsylvania, while the car was owned by Wayne Walker. After rebuilding, the engine was dynoed by Eanes Automotive in Richmond, Virginia. Dyno results: 490 hp @ 6000 rpm and 523 hp @ 7000 rpm."

don' you even read what you post? "The engine was REBUILT"

[Fleet 500]

I think Harddrive has come up with far more "factual" facts than your "info and sources"...

But he has been inaccurate with several items.
Like when he claimed the Hemi-Mopars couldn't do any better than "136 mph," using specs from Car Life, when I posted the '68 Hemi GTX with an observed 144 mph @ 5900 rpm.

And that Chevrolet did indeed offer for sale, to the public, 11-second factory race cars (street-legal and street-driveable race cars, that is). He makes the claim that they were "barely" street driveable, but that doesn't mean they weren't.

And the fact that the "gross" hp ratings were, for many muscle car engines, underrated on purpose. Witness the "335" hp 390 and 428 Ford engines.

[Fleet 500]

don' you even read what you post? "The engine was REBUILT"

So? The engine was rebuilt in my Dart, but it was rebuilt to factory specs. A lot of muscle car owners rebuild their engines to factory specs. In fact, some even detune them slightly, like lower the compression ratio, so it will run better on today's fuel.
Actually, it didn't say that the 427 engine was rebuilt and modfied. It probably would have mentioned that is made the quoted horsepower with such and such modifications. It also said that the factory rating was "greatly underrated," which it was.

[Fleet 500]

[B][I][U][COLOR="Red"]
Here are the THIRD PARTY TEST results of a modern tuner car. That piece of crap "Baldwin" would get its doors blown off - especially once all cars had full traction.

Hennessey Performance Engineering - Item Detail Page

MOTOR TREND MAGAZINE - JUNE 2006:

# 0-60 mph: 3.2 sec. (1st Place Overall)
# 0-150 mph: 10.0 sec. (1st Place Overall)
# 1/4 mile: 10.5 sec. @ 153 mph
# Standing Mile: 217.9 mph (1st Place Overall)
# 60-0 mph Braking: 103.6 ft. (1st Place Overall)
# 100-0 mph Braking: 288 ft. (1st Place Overall)
# Chassis Dyno: 977 Rear Wheel HP (1st Place Overall)

Since you are bringing up not only an exotic (Hennessey Viper), but a super-exotic:
Here is the '70 Dodge Hemi Challenger (center photo) street machine I mentioned before... 9.70s through-the-mufflers! That would blow that piece of crap, overpriced Viper into the weeds.

And, btw, 977 rear wheel hp and it can only run a 10.5 1/4 mile? The '68 Hemi Darts and Barracudas could run those times with a lot less horsepower. But I guess it takes that much horsepower to try and keep up with the fastest of the '60s cars!

I'll stay with the '60s cars.

[henk4]

So? The engine was rebuilt in my Dart, but it was rebuilt to factory specs. It also said that the factory rating was "greatly underrated," which it was.

Did you put a Chevy engine in your Dart?

And your second line must be the mother of all proofs....

Do you remember which car won the very first Trans-Am race? It was then for cars up to 5 liter displacement....

[Fleet 500]

Did you put a Chevy engine in your Dart?

And your second line must be the mother of all proofs....

Do you remember which car won the very first Trans-Am race? It was then for cars up to 5 liter displacement....

What are you talking about... a Chevy engine in a Dart? I was just saying that engines can and are rebuilt to factory specs.

And what is so strange about my second line? It is well known, among muscle car fans, that the "430" gross hp rating for that very powerful ZL-1 427 Chevy engine was joke!

[henk4]

What are you talking about... a Chevy engine in a Dart? I was just saying that engines can and are rebuilt to factory specs.

And what is so strange about my second line? It is well known, among muscle car fans, that the "430" gross hp rating for that very powerful ZL-1 427 Chevy engine was joke!

we/you were talking about a Chevy engine and out of the blue your Dart appears into the equation...

I think the whole "gross rating" system was a joke....

[Fleet 500]

we/you were talking about a Chevy engine and out of the blue your Dart appears into the equation....

Because of the subject of engine rebuilding. And I was saying that rebuilding an engine doesn't necessarily mean it's going to be modified.

I think the whole "gross rating" system was a joke...

It was, but not for the reason you think. From about 1962 to 1971 (when net hp was being phased in), you really couldn't believe the hp ratings of many of the muscle car engines. The car companies had an agreement not rate the engines above 425 gross hp no matter what they really put out. Although, Chevy did eventually break that unwritten rule when they rated the 427-tripower Corvette engine at 435 hp and the LS-6 454 Chevy engine at 450 hp.

But, the 426-Hemi, the regular 427 Chevy, the 427 Ford and the highest-rated Max Wedge engines all had a 425 hp rating. "Coincidence," isn't it?

[henk4]

Because of the subject of engine rebuilding. And I was saying that rebuilding an engine doesn't necessarily mean it's going to be modified.



It was, but not for the reason you think. From about 1962 to 1971 (when net hp was being phased in), you really couldn't believe the hp ratings of many of the muscle car engines. The car companies had an agreement not rate the engines above 425 gross hp no matter what they really put out. Although, Chevy did eventually break that unwritten rule when they rated the 427-tripower Corvette engine at 435 hp and the LS-6 454 Chevy engine at 450 hp.

But, the 426-Hemi, the regular 427 Chevy, the 427 Ford and the highest-rated Max Wedge engines all had a 425 hp rating. "Coincidence," isn't it?

The article nowhere said it was rebuilt according to factory specs....

and I think the second part of your post has already been sufficiently dealt with......

and you are still searching for the winner of the first Trans-Am race????

[Fleet 500]

The article nowhere said it was rebuilt according to factory specs....

And the article also nowhere said it wasn't.

and I think the second part of your post has already been sufficiently dealt with......

Good, glad you agree that many muscle car engines had underrated advertised hp.

and you are still searching for the winner of the first Trans-Am race????

Explain again what that has to do with gross and net horsepower and/or street legal cars.

[henk4]

And the article also nowhere said it wasn't.



Good, glad you agree that many muscle car engines had underrated advertised hp.



Explain again what that has to do with gross and net horsepower and/or street legal cars.

HAHAHA

and for the third point...find the answer and you may rethink the HP figures of US engines....

[Fleet 500]

HAHAHA

and for the third point...find the answer and you may rethink the HP figures of US engines....

Well, I do know that the 5 Liter (302) engines in the late-'60s Camaro Z/28 and Ford Boss Mustang had an advertised rating of 290 hp but were factored by the NHRA at 310 hp. In this case, Chevy and Ford didn't fool anyone!