Norway to ban petroluem powered cars?

[Matt]

Population control is a natural process in most cases. Honestly, I think humans take a lot of crap in environmental terms. We're certainly not rediculous, or irresponsible, unnecessay I'll grant you. In the animal kingdom, humans are the only specie which even considers its impact on the world around it.

We're the only species who has the ability to consider our impact on the world around it. And for thousands of years, we've ignored the impact we've had. And we've exploited the Earth for everything she has to give.

Give us some credit for fighting our own natural inclinations, and at least giving ourselves the chance not to die off like a heard of water buffalo who've come to the end of the grass...

We're the only species who has the self-awareness and the technology to combat the things that would kill off species lower on the food chain. We live in cities where the only predators we have to worry about are each other. On a societal and technological basis, you can't even begin to compare us to other animals. And I'm not sure that's a good thing.

[MRR]

I do understand that. Still doesn't make it a poor candidate for change.

But does it mean we should ban them? I thought most here were automotive enthusiasts?

[Piacki_117]

Being an automotive enthusiat doesn't mean being unaware of the environmental issues and disrespectful to our planet.

[Matt]

But does it mean we should ban them? I thought most here were automotive enthusiasts?

I love cars. CAR was actually my first word a long 3 decades ago. But, I would choose to live in a clean, healthy world over driving any car. Easy choice.

[MRR]

Being an automotive enthusiat doesn't mean being unaware of the environmental issues and disrespectful to our planet.

No of course but would you be willing to give up your car to do so? I'm not arguing being "disrespectful" to our planet is ok but I won't give up my car sorry. When I can find a reasonable alternative fuel car I might consider doing so but at least in the US no company has provided a decent alternative (don't even talk about the Prius)

[The_Canuck]

Thats like banning wood houses to save forests, idiotic. Stop producing them? Sure...but to ban them completely? Think of the enviromental damage in getting rid of all these old cars...

[Matt]

No of course but would you be willing to give up your car to do so? I'm not arguing being "disrespectful" to our planet is ok but I won't give up my car sorry. When I can find a reasonable alternative fuel car I might consider doing so but at least in the US no company has provided a decent alternative (don't even talk about the Prius)

That's exactly the kind of selfish attitude that has gotten us to where we are now.

"Sure, I want to make the world better for all of humanity. But, not at the expense of my own convenience, or worse yet, my hobby!"

I do agree that nothing will change until there is a viable alternative. But, the attitude stinks.

[MRR]

That's exactly the kind of selfish attitude that has gotten us to where we are now.

"Sure, I want to make the world better for all of humanity. But, not at the expense of my own convenience, or worse yet, my hobby!"

I do agree that nothing will change until there is a viable alternative. But, the attitude stinks.

Really? you get rid of your car first and then we'll talk.

I hope to do research within the next few years to work on such an alternative but of course I am still selfish. For lack of better works let the person who has committed no sin cast the first stone.

[tallguynate]

I think I saw that chart on CSPAN.

Plus they reference Brazil there, but newsflash: Brazil is the world's leader in ethanol-making, they are perhaps the only energy independant country in the world. They make and therefore supply their own ethanol from sugar cane.

Unfortunately, Brazil is a huge culprit in global warming. Not in any part due to their government but because of the burning of thousands of acres of rainforest each year by squatters trying to drive ranchers off their land.

Also, I thought this was an interesting article:

Georgia Bioethanol Plant

It is definitely a better choice over corn-based ethanol.

[ScionDriver]

Also, I thought this was an interesting article:

Georgia Bioethanol Plant

It is definitely a better choice over corn-based ethanol.

Unfortuneatly it is not. People need to keep in mind that the wood scraps and things they are using are great, they can make ethanol from switchgrass, biomass residues (wood scraps, corn scraps, etc), sugar cane, etc. But we need the biomass residue in order to replenish the soil and keep natural habitats/ecosystems in tact. So yeah it will help avoid us starving to death because we used all our corn for fuel but it won't do anything to perpetuate soil for years to come.

[MRR]

Unfortuneatly it is not. People need to keep in mind that the wood scraps and things they are using are great, they can make ethanol from switchgrass, biomass residues (wood scraps, corn scraps, etc), sugar cane, etc. But we need the biomass residue in order to replenish the soil and keep natural habitats/ecosystems in tact. So yeah it will help avoid us starving to death because we used all our corn for fuel but it won't do anything to perpetuate soil for years to come.

Could we not use parts of the crops that aren't eaten (i.e. corn stalks) or is this needed for soil preservation as well (not an expert on this).

[clutch-monkey]

Could we not use parts of the crops that aren't eaten (i.e. corn stalks) or is this needed for soil preservation as well (not an expert on this).

no, because you're already taking material from the topsoil by carting off the corn to be eaten, you need the stalks to help revitalise it, planting legumes etc is not enough

theoretically if we dredged the ocean floor and dumped it on all the crop lands then we could do all that, since that's where it all ends up eventually.

[ZeTurbo]

The issue should not fuel consumption of automobiles. It is just one issue among many that must be adressed, in order to stop global warming, improve general public health and restore some of nature's lost feathers.

What does society need more than anything else? ENERGY. and where do we get our energy from? in most cases fossil fuels. we need to replace coal, gas and petrol energy stations with nuclear, wind, solar and hydro power. this alone would acount for 20% of green house gas emissions.

Another issue is how we manufacture and produce goods. industrial processes must make recycling a bigger priority, re-using materials is key. and not just glass and some plastics, but all plastics, metals , infrastructures etc... Controling emissions and waste by governement agencies must also be stricter and not turn a blind eye to large corporations.

Of course cars must also be transformed from fossil fuel burners to green machines. but not only cras. airplanes, trains trucks.. they are all heavy polluting machinery that goes unchecked.

These three key sources of GHG acount for more that 50% of its emissions. Big strides must be taken in EVERY FIELD in order to make a significant change in our habits. Sibling one aspect like car emissions will do little more than generate heated threads in online forums.

And who says you ant be a car enthusiast and an environemntalist? have you seen the Tesla roadster?

[clutch-monkey]

What does society need more than anything else? ENERGY.

so what we need is a dyson sphere... well i'll settle for a dyson ring then

[ZeTurbo]

so what we need is a dyson sphere... well i'll settle for a dyson ring then

let me grab some carbon nanotubes out of the shed, meet me outisde mars.

EDIT can you imagine how incredibly awsome a dyson phere would be?