"The 10 Worst Muscle Cars Of All Time"

[Fleet 500]

Funny you say that, I know this guy who had a 280SEL and he said that it got the best mileage at 90 m.p.h., that 4th gear took some serious speed.

I find it hard to believe that a car will get better mileage at 90 mph than at 60 or 70 mph.
The old English magazine "Autocar" had mpg figures for their test cars from 30 mph up to 100 mph and the mpg always dropped quite a bit at speeds of 80 mph and higher.

[Falcon500]

I find it hard to believe that a car will get better mileage at 90 mph than at 60 or 70 mph.
The old English magazine "Autocar" had mpg figures for their test cars from 30 mph up to 100 mph and the mpg always dropped quite a bit at speeds of 80 mph and higher.

Big german cars are usually built for their best performance on the autobahn.

The one in the test wasnt though if your compareing it to yours then compare it to yours otherwise the test is null and void.

And I really like how you ignored my 2nd sentance

[Fleet 500]

Big german cars are usually built for their best performance on the autobahn.

I know that, but at 90 mph, wind resistance is a lot more than at 70 mph and a car needs more throttle to stay at that speed.

The one in the test wasnt though if your compareing it to yours then compare it to yours otherwise the test is null and void.

Compare in what category? And why would actual road test figures become "null and void" if it's not compared to another car?

And I really like how you ignored my 2nd sentance.

What's to ignore? Those were just a few of many "kill" (street racing) stories. Do you really think that they are all "fake?" Heck, I've seen a few accerleration contests between two cars when I'm out biking and at the weekly car gathering. And quite often the classic car is faster than the modern one.

[henk4]

Mercedes made the claim that their 6.3 model would be a challenge to the U.S. muscle cars. That is why Car Life posted the sentence saying that the 6.3 would put a hurt to America's finest (muscle cars).

Unless someone here can prove that Mercedes never challenged the muscle cars, you will just have to accept it.

No sir, you have to prove that Mercedes made the actual claim. What this magazine did was guessing what they thought Mercedes could be thinking....

[Falcon500]

I know that, but at 90 mph, wind resistance is a lot more than at 70 mph and a car needs more throttle to stay at that speed.



Compare in what category? And why would actual road test figures become "null and void" if it's not compared to another car?



What's to ignore? Those were just a few of many "kill" (street racing) stories. Do you really think that they are all "fake?" Heck, I've seen a few accerleration contests between two cars when I'm out biking and at the weekly car gathering. And quite often the classic car is faster than the modern one.

The German car does have extra gears, the engine is very likly much more efficent and other little things like areodynamics,better tyres (both period specific) etc would all likely work in its favor in this situation.

Their null and void because the caddy your quopteings a diffrent model to your own so then both practically and philisophically your argument is null.

Most cannot even clearly say what colours or even make out detials if the story was real theyd know what colour the stripes on the car was. Hell ive seen a smart out accelerate a viper (and have video proof of it) written text on the internet is not a reliable source ESPECIALLY if detials that really stand out are extremly sketchy.

[henk4]

Not really. Don't believe the myth that you can't drive a classic muscle car on a road course or a track.

the problem was that they were trying to race it....sort of...

[Fleet 500]

No sir, you have to prove that Mercedes made the actual claim. What this magazine did was guessing what they thought Mercedes could be thinking....

Now why would they make up something like that? How do you know that the magazine was guessing? They had a lot of access to auto manufacturers publicity ads. That is most likely where they got it from.
And again, how can I "prove" it when I don't have any Mercedes literature?

[Fleet 500]

The German car does have extra gears, the engine is very likly much more efficent and other little things like areodynamics,better tyres (both period specific) etc would all likely work in its favor in this situation.

It has extra gears, but it still needed 4100 rpm to go 103 mph (more revs than my Cadillac needs to go the same speed!).

Their null and void because the caddy your quopteings a diffrent model to your own so then both practically and philisophically your argument is null.

Oh, I get it. My Cad weighs about 300-lbs more than the test car I posted, but mine has dual exhaust which that other car didn't have and a shift kit. So the 1/4 mile time would be about the same, and probably a little better.

Most cannot even clearly say what colours or even make out detials if the story was real theyd know what colour the stripes on the car was. Hell ive seen a smart out accelerate a viper (and have video proof of it) written text on the internet is not a reliable source ESPECIALLY if detials that really stand out are extremly sketchy.

Why are you spending so much time on that one race? There are many others in which a classic car wins against a modern car. This may shock some members here, but sometimes an old car does accelerate faster than a new car!

[henk4]

Now why would they make up something like that? How do you know that the magazine was guessing? They had a lot of access to auto manufacturers publicity ads. That is most likely where they got it from.
And again, how can I "prove" it when I don't have any Mercedes literature?

The press can make up anything...and in general the legal system works in such a way, that as long as you have no evidence that Mercedes said it, you have no proof that they said it.....

[Fleet 500]

The press can make up anything...and in general the legal system works in such a way, that as long as you have no evidence that Mercedes said it, you have no proof that they said it.....

And with no proof, your allegation that Car Life "made up" what they said is just that... an allegation with no real proof.

Even Road & Track (a big fan of Euro cars) said this in their road test of a '69 6.3 Mercedes:
"In our top speed runs we averaged 131 mph over the two-way measured mile. The factory claims an excess of 140 mph with this same 2.85:1 rear end ratio but we sincerely doubt this. The power (and torque) drop off perceptibly as the engine speed goes beyond the 4100-rpm power peak and our car showed not the slightest inclination toward wanting to attain 140 mph. The whole discussion is academic, of course, as no one has a "practical" reason for wanting to go 140 mph but we are a little surprised at Mercedes-Benz for making such a claim."

Now I guess you are going to say that Mercedes never made the 140 mph claim?

[henk4]

And with no proof, your allegation that Car Life "made up" what they said is just that... an allegation with no real proof.

Even Road & Track (a big fan of Euro cars) said this in their road test of a '69 6.3 Mercedes:
"In our top speed runs we averaged 131 mph over the two-way measured mile. The factory claims an excess of 140 mph with this same 2.85:1 rear end ratio but we sincerely doubt this. The power (and torque) drop off perceptibly as the engine speed goes beyond the 4100-rpm power peak and our car showed not the slightest inclination toward wanting to attain 140 mph. The whole discussion is academic, of course, as no one has a "practical" reason for wanting to go 140 mph but we are a little surprised at Mercedes-Benz for making such a claim."

Look. Mercedes gave a topspeed figure that R&T could not reproduce and they are surprised about, but that is something totally different from the wordings that the other magazine used to describe Mercedes' objectives.

I did some searching myself, and R&T did have a car that went over 135 mph....

Mercedes-Benz 300 SEL 6.3 - Road & Track 6/68

Also interesting (read the final line,,,)
Mercedes 300 SEL 6.3 - Motor Trend 6/68

This whole discussion started because you reproduced the C&L statement as coming directly from Mercedes, (without mentioning the source). That was clearly not the case, so on the basis of what you produced we can only speculate.

and finally:
Mercedes 300 SEL 6.3 1971

[Fleet 500]

Look. Mercedes gave a topspeed figure that R&T could not reproduce and they are surprised about, but that is something totally different from the wordings that the other magazine used to describe Mercedes' objectives.

I did some searching myself, and R&T did have a car that went over 135 mph....

Mercedes-Benz 300 SEL 6.3 - Road & Track 6/68

Also interesting (read the final line,,,)
Mercedes 300 SEL 6.3 - Motor Trend 6/68

That kind of proves my point! The first link shows a top speed of "just over 135 mph" and the second link shows 136 mph. Neither is 140+ mph.

This whole discussion started because you reproduced the C&L statement as coming directly from Mercedes, (without mentioning the source). That was clearly not the case, so on the basis of what you produced we can only speculate.

I reproduced the statement, but I didn't say it came from Mercedes, Car Life said it. And unless you can show that Mercedes never said that their 6.3 could compete with the American muscle cars, there is no reason to doubt Car Life. And how do you know it was "clearly not the case?" Can you show here that Mercedes never challenged or compared the 6.3 with muscle cars?

and finally:
Mercedes 300 SEL 6.3 1971

Interesting, but there is no top speed listed.

[henk4]

I reproduced the statement, but I didn't say it came from Mercedes, Car Life said it.

The problem was that you did not mention Car & Life when you first made your statement....

Official topspeed announced by Mercedes when the car was presented at the Geneva Motorshow in 1968 was 221 kph....or roughly 137 mph....

[Fleet 500]

The problem was that you did not mention Car & Life when you first made your statement...

Of course I did. I posted the part in quotation marks, meaning it was the actual text in the magazine. Shall I scan it and post it here?

Official topspeed announced by Mercedes when the car was presented at the Geneva Motorshow in 1968 was 221 kph....or roughly 137 mph...

And later, a 140+ mph top speed was claimed.

[henk4]

You are wrong. Those words are from Mercedes. As printed in Car Life magazine, Nov., 1968...
"National pride made the challenge mandatory. A European manufacturer has gone into the Supercar business, with the huge engine from the limousine installed in an intermediate-sized sedan. When only Americans did this, the Europeans denounced the practice as vulgar. Now it is proclaimed as advanced engineering, and the factory claims its new creation would put the hurt on America's finest.

The words are from Mercedes as printed in Car&Life Magazine.....Now how would we have to interpret that: Using the quote marks you make it look like C&L took a Mercedes text literally....find that Mercedes text and I'll be on my knees. If you can't find it, you are guilty of history falsification....