Late 80s supercar shootout

[Kitdy]

It did a bit of Le Mans and GT racing.

Yeah, it failed to win it's class at Le Mans, lost to the Audis in IMSA, and lost to the McLaren F1 in BPR.

I'm gonna have a deeper look into it's racing history though.

EDIT: Had a look into IMSA GT and BPR, the F40 LM wasn't to hot in IMSA and didn't win a race, but frequently was on pole in BPR in all three of it's years - it looks to me as if a championship had been awarded in 1994 the F40 would have won it.

In 1995 and 1996 it seemed to be on pole a plurality if not majority of the time but was usually beaten by the McLaren F1 or later the 911 GT1. As UCP states, they could jack up the turbos in qualifications and maybe this is why they qualified so well.

As for race pace, they weren't so hot - in Le Mans, they also had reliability problems and were outpaced by the McLaren F1, they qualified well, but failed to finish often and never won GT1.

[henk4]

What is the other turbo street Ferrari other than the 288?

the 208 for the Italian market.

[carreragt10]

Porsche 959

[#1 Mustang Fan]

hmm, toss up between the Porsche and the Lambo. Went with Porsche.

Had a crush on 'em for awhile

[Ferrer]

For me the Lambo. May be one of the worse to drive, but for a supercar it has all the ingredients right.

The Porsche is fine but just a jumped up 911, the Ferrari is good but it has a V8 and the Corvette is outclassed in this company.

[Wouter Melissen]

Yeah, it failed to win it's class at Le Mans, lost to the Audis in IMSA, and lost to the McLaren F1 in BPR.

I'm gonna have a deeper look into it's racing history though.

EDIT: Had a look into IMSA GT and BPR, the F40 LM wasn't to hot in IMSA and didn't win a race, but frequently was on pole in BPR in all three of it's years - it looks to me as if a championship had been awarded in 1994 the F40 would have won it.

In 1995 and 1996 it seemed to be on pole a plurality if not majority of the time but was usually beaten by the McLaren F1 or later the 911 GT1. As UCP states, they could jack up the turbos in qualifications and maybe this is why they qualified so well.

As for race pace, they weren't so hot - in Le Mans, they also had reliability problems and were outpaced by the McLaren F1, they qualified well, but failed to finish often and never won GT1.

I challenge you to find a car that was this competitive, nearly a decade after it was launched. Fact of the matter is that when the F40 was first launched there was no class for it to race in. That McLaren won at Le Mans was an absolute freak occurrence helped by disintegrating competition and poor weather. It covered a shorted distance than the Jaguar C-Type in 1953.

[Kitdy]

I challenge you to find a car that was this competitive, nearly a decade after it was launched. Fact of the matter is that when the F40 was first launched there was no class for it to race in. That McLaren won at Le Mans was an absolute freak occurrence helped by disintegrating competition and poor weather. It covered a shorted distance than the Jaguar C-Type in 1953.

I wouldn't accept that challenge as there probably isn't a car that was as competitive that many years later in it's life. I know the F40 did well for it's age - it dominated BPR in 1994 and in 1995 and 1996 did alright as as well - especially in shorter distance events. If it had raced when it was first produced it would have done much better I admit. Could it have raced in the GTX category in 1986-1987?

It was nearly brand new in 1989 when it took part in a few races in IMSA and did fare well but didn't win.

Were the air restrictors affixed in an attempt at performance equalization?

[Kitdy]

The Porsche is fine but just a jumped up 911

And you chide me for making sweeping comments about Lancia.

A 959 is hardly "just a jumped up" 911. It is - as I am sure you know - regarded as the most technologically advanced car of it's era.

[Wouter Melissen]

I wouldn't accept that challenge as there probably isn't a car that was as competitive that many years later in it's life. I know the F40 did well for it's age - it dominated BPR in 1994 and in 1995 and 1996 did alright as as well - especially in shorter distance events. If it had raced when it was first produced it would have done much better I admit. Could it have raced in the GTX category in 1986-1987?

Of course it could have, but what was the point? The only other car built to those regulations had been turned into a smoldered heap of metal.

It was nearly brand new in 1989 when it took part in a few races in IMSA and did fare well but didn't win.

Were the air restrictors affixed in an attempt at performance equalization?

Yes, turbo's were penalised quite heavily. Particularly in the later stages of the F40's career. That's why the Porsche never did very well in the BPR / FIA GT.

[Kitdy]

Of course it could have, but what was the point? The only other car built to those regulations had been turned into a smoldered heap of metal.

Well, I was just illustrating that there was at least 1 class in which the F40 could have taken part in at Le Mans at release if they had built a race version earlier. Yes this class was pathetic and had only 1 make of car, but it could have raced against the 961.

I think it actually would have been quite interesting to see two of the best supercars of the time duking it out on the track - especially at Le Mans. Shame it didn't come to be.

Yes, turbo's were penalised quite heavily. Particularly in the later stages of the F40's career. That's why the Porsche never did very well in the BPR / FIA GT.

I shoulda been more specific - were the air restrictors on the F40 in IMSA abnormally small (presumably as otherwise the F40 would have cleaned up and the people in charge wanted to slow down an exceptionally fast car) or were the F40's air restrictors inline with the pre-existing regulations of the series?

[Wouter Melissen]

Well, I was just illustrating that there was at least 1 class in which the F40 could have taken part in at Le Mans at release if they had built a race version earlier. Yes this class was pathetic and had only 1 make of car, but it could have raced against the 961.

I think it actually would have been quite interesting to see two of the best supercars of the time duking it out on the track - especially at Le Mans. Shame it didn't come to be.

No it could not have raced against the 961. That car was turned to ashes at Le Mans in 1987.

[Q TOY]

Saw this in a magazine once as a kid, always stuck in my mind since.

Here are the contenders:

Ferrari F40:


357 kW
577 Nm
3.0l twin turbo V8
1100 kg


Porsche 959:


335 kW
500 Nm
2.8l twin turbo flat 6
1450 kg


Lamborghini Countach 25th Anniversary:


340 kW
501 Nm
5.2l V12
1494 kg


The magazine had an Esprit thrown in as well. Call me biased, but I think it was a bit in over it's head, so I replaced it with the Corvette ZR1:


302 kW
522 Nm
5.7l V8
1590 kq

I agree with the Lotus been over its head but no more than the vette is.

[blingbling]

was the bugatti eb110 from the 80s or the 90s, because i thought that was the bomb

[Wouter Melissen]

was the bugatti eb110 from the 80s or the 90s, because i thought that was the bomb

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[NSXType-R]

The Corvette does not belong, I think. The Lotus with the V8 seems to be a better competitor.

I would pick the F40. It is a special car for sure.

The 959 is a very close second though.