Is BMW "THE" premium small sedan.

[Ferrer]

how would you compare 2002Tii to a curent three series (330CI or something?)

Of course not. In fact the 1er Coupe is probably closer actually the old '02 series.

However compare the old Giulia to the 159 family and the diffence is far more painful.

[mdok]

I have an e30 and an e36 m3. I was driving when the 2002/1602 were current. Never liked the old ones, I think the rear suspension is garbage (as is my e30's). Steering didn't impress either. Rear traction, particularly on wet or loose surfaces sucks. Limited slips are essential in these cars, in my book. The newer cars, while good in many ways, have become obese. BMW is surely capable of making a reasonably sized saloon that weighs an absolute max of 3000lbs. When they weigh less, it goes without saying, less engine power (and mass) is needed. I'd like 330bhp in a 2600lb 2dr. saloon.

Starting with the e30s, BMW started to get their balance right, and the steering became good as well, though a bit slow. With the e36 came a workable rear suspension.

Having said that, the 330Ci is a pretty nice ride. Just a bit big for me. The 2002 was a good car in its day as well. I'd say they are comparable, cars have come a long way.

[NSXType-R]

Yeah, I guess you could say that BMW is the premium small sedan maker. But now the segment's gotten crowded, from the likes of Lexus, Infiniti, (Acura does not count, it's FWD although some Brera models are as well) Audi, Cadillac, and Mercedes Benz of course. Eventually I see Hyundai downsizing the Genesis as well and giving the Germans, Americans and Japanese a run for their money on the cheap. Any other car makers that I missed?

In the long run, competition is good. We get better products.

[mdok]

We do indeed.

You mean the "3 series" Lexus? Appears to be designed by Chris Bangle...

[togos452]

The 2008 Cadillac CTS is a nice car. It can be had with direct fuel injection.

[Ferrer]

The 2008 Cadillac CTS is a nice car. It can be had with direct fuel injection.

It is much too big and heavy to be considered a sports saloon.

[clutch-monkey]

i don't really think BMW has it all their own way, on paper at least (where badge doesn't come into play..).
any 3 series apart from the 330 - M3 is pretty much out done by a honda accord euro (TSX?), subaru liberty, etc etc. sure, you don't get RWD in those, but it's not exactly a deal breaker over a base 3 series..
1 series is intriguing but not the best looking, like every other BMW series lol.
as for the 5 series - well, i'll just save the money and get a commodore SS honestly. hell, or a HSV/FPV and i'd still have change.

[mdok]

Lucky aussies, and V8 Supercars, too. Some of the best racing on the planet

[coolieman1220]

my Infiniti G35 eats BMW 3 series for breakfast!!!!!!!!

that being said, i still love the 3 series but they're small and expensive but you get an amazing product. i raced a TL the other day and it did beat me but only in driving skill, i clearly had the faster car. RWD is king

[xavito]

Hi, paws.
Anyboy owns a BMW Series 1 Coupe, is it a good car ?
I'm thinking of buying one.
Currently I own an Audi.
Thanks a lot.
BR,

Francisco J.

[QuattroMan]

Hi, paws.
Anyboy owns a BMW Series 1 Coupe, is it a good car ?
I'm thinking of buying one.
Currently I own an Audi.
Thanks a lot.
BR,

Francisco J.

any pictures of your Audi and more info...A4,S4 you know all thr good stuff..

[Ferrer]

i don't really think BMW has it all their own way, on paper at least (where badge doesn't come into play..).
any 3 series apart from the 330 - M3 is pretty much out done by a honda accord euro (TSX?), subaru liberty, etc etc. sure, you don't get RWD in those, but it's not exactly a deal breaker over a base 3 series..
1 series is intriguing but not the best looking, like every other BMW series lol.
as for the 5 series - well, i'll just save the money and get a commodore SS honestly. hell, or a HSV/FPV and i'd still have change.

Well if you don't have rear wheel drive in your sports saloon, what's the point?

I drive a base diesel bimmer and trust me you can tell the difference.

[Clivey]

If I were paying £20-£30k for a saloon, I'd demand RWD.

Why?

- The only advantage of FWD is cost, and all it gives you in return is understeer, which is my pet hate in car handling.

- AWD makes cars like the Audi A4 boring to drive compared to their RWD rivals (i.e. 3-series) because unless you're very aggressive, they behave just like an FWD car. The only exception being where AWD systems send over 70% of the power to the rear.

IMO the best choice for a "sports saloon" therefore is RWD. In the UK market, that means either:

- BMW 3-Series
- Lexus IS
- Mercedes C-Class

And from reading every review I can find, looking at the performance figures etc. It's clear even before you take a drive in any of those that the BMW is the most sporting saloon.

[Wouter Melissen]

- The only advantage of FWD is cost, and all it gives you in return is understeer, which is my pet hate in car handling.

No the advantage is space. Front engined, rear wheel drive cars require a transmission tunnel, which takes away interior space. The rear differential is detrimental to the boot space. For a practical car, front wheel drive is the way to go.

[Clivey]

No the advantage is space. Front engined, rear wheel drive cars require a transmission tunnel, which takes away interior space. The rear differential is detrimental to the boot space. For a practical car, front wheel drive is the way to go.

Almost all FWD cars still have a tunnel down the centre of the cabin anyway, so it makes little difference in that respect. Regarding practicality: Saloon's aren't "the way to go" to start with because they just aren't as versatile as a hatchback (compare sales of the Mondeo/Vectra hatchbacks to their saloon counterparts; the reason for the difference is purely to do with load space). Therefore in talking about "sports saloons", we're pretty much disregarding practicality anyway. I'd gladly sacrifice a few litres of boot volume for RWD and judging by the popularity of the 3-Series, I think a lot of buyers agree.