Lol gtr

[togos452]

Understandably the guy is painting a negative picture.

BUT, sincs cars were first built, owerns KNOW that they can't push the limits of a car all the time and not expect something to break !

I get fed up with the "must be someone (elses) fault" complaining.

Did the owner drive without VDC the whole time he drove it? This story is sad if true.

[2ndclasscitizen]

isn't this kinda..par for the course for a high performance AWD vehicle?

Pretty much. Idiots blow WRX boxes all the time, while the clutch goes on people who know what they're doing and drive hard.

[Matra et Alpine]

I also think it is wrong that they include a "snow" function that needs to be used to enable launch control and that system is prominently located on the dash. Why does a "snow" mode need to put the car at risk.

Not following that, can you explain ?
My thoughts on it are first a "snow" mode switch is VERY important for a car that has so much power and uses electronics to determine many dynamic paramters ... snow needs different modelling than tarmac and gravel.
Are you saying you HAVE to switch to "snow" for then to be able to use "Launch control" ? I can see the logic in that ! The RX-8 is a nightmare to drive in snow as it's DSC prevents wheel spin by craking ... whcih means you just get slower and slower trying to go uphill -- even on very slight grades. You can "defeat" it by switching it OFF to get strarted and then switching it back on to avoid wiping out A not unreasonable limitation in my mind as I was only trying to go that route as I was course opening car for local rally

[culver]

The "snow" function is useful but why, with all the car's computer power, would you set up the snow function such that it could damage the car? Couldn't "snow" be accomplished with some reduction in power such that the drive line wouldn't be harmed? I would think 200-300 hp would be sufficient for driving in snow. On other cars "snow" settings often do things like start in 2nd gear and limit power to limit unintended slippage (that doesn't preclude deliberate slippage).

I know what you mean about DSC interfering while driving in snow. The Corvette C6 I drove could only go about 8mph on a snowy driveway because the electronics would kick in (I didn't take it out of standard mode).

The other part I think is off, or at least labeled very poorly is putting the "super performance launch function" as a sub-function of "snow". If we think of the switches and modes as hierarchical then launch mode should be under some performance setting, not under an inclement weather setting. I believe I've seen other cars where to get the best launch performance you must set some control to a "track" or "performance" setting as opposed to "standard" mode. I can't think of many that would have you set the car to "winter" to get the best handling.

[Matra et Alpine]

Well launch control is a subset of "snow" setup really as traction is even MORE difficult in snow than when mashing the throttle from a standstill.
Can see the "logic"
Because it's NOT for "Performacne" ... the launch control is always going to compromise settings for the rest of a drive.
It's why F1 drivers used to engage launch control and then after that it wasn't available
The comment about snow "damage" is interesting too as if you had a 4wd before the days of electronic diffs then the "setup" let you switch to lckoed up 4WD mode ... but if you were stupid enough to drive at speed cornering on tarmac in that setup then you tore the whole transmission apart VERY quickly.
I do NOT think designers should be "dumbing down" designs for idiots who don't read instructions of have sympathy. Otherwise we'll ahve all those horribloe US-litiginous BS even MORE widespread

[culver]

I don't think this:

Activating the Nissan GT-R's launch control is a matter of configuring its transmission, dynamics control and damping adjustments properly. The transmission and damping switches must both be set to the R mode and the VDC must be switched off completely by holding the VDC-R button down for a few seconds. Then it's just a matter of pinning the brake with your left foot and wooding the throttle with your right, not unlike the technique used to produce a tire-shredding burnout in that '85 Camaro you drove in high school.

sounds like your typical "not performance", "for use in snow" sort of setup. Though I must say it sounds like in this case you don't toggle "snow" you flip the switch the other way perhaps. At least that means the "snow" mode might not damage the transmission as I thought. Perhaps...

Not sure why you had such bad luck with 4WD cars. If you drove a part time 4WD vehicle in 4WD on dry pavement it was rather obvious things weren't working as they should and NO in most cases it didn't damage things. It scrubbed your tires so they wore quickly. It killed your gas mileage. It made the truck handle poorly. It didn't frag the gearbox.

I don't think it's a good move on the part of Nissan to advertise this feature and then void warranties when this feature is used and damages the car. Wouldn't you wonder about Mazda if they included a "Redline +1000 RPM) switch on your RX-8, marketed how much faster that little switch made the car then turned a blind eye when the engine failed due to over reving? They might as well have a button that says "don't push me".

Sorry, what Nissan did is crappy. I'm not saying they are legally wrong but it is crappy and I suspect it will negatively impact people's perception of the car.

[Matra et Alpine]

Culver, where did you get that quote ? It reads more like journalist rather than manufacturer-speak ?

"Most cases" for passenger type cars it did. I'm goping back to before all the smarts we have now and NOT talkign about a truck

Mazda DO have a disable DSC switch and a REALLY disable DSC option - hold the button in for 10 seconds. THe manual is VERY clear about the risks. If I shag the clutch or drivetrain ( there are examples of sheared shaft in the RX-8 'box ) then Mazda won't cover if I've been hooning it BTW, boss sold his 911, bought a Ferrari./ We did many, MANY trackdays. The F went in for service and they cited EVERY trackday date, revs, temperatures, speeds and then todl him the engine needed "X" done and the transmission/brakes "Y" and the total cost was about £8000 ... or no warranty He sold it shortly and went back to the 911 !! So others DO have these issues.

Good point on the "dont push me" button. As all these "feature" buttons shoudl have a "don't push me if you're a fecking idiot button" !!

[LeonOfTheDead]

the point is that to achieve the top performance out of the car, in a Ferrari you have to use the "track" or "race" setup, so it's quite obvious that you are using your car in a different way and something could go wrong.

[coolieman1220]

owning a Nissan, i know a thing or two about VDC. IT WORKS! it's a great stystem thats not too intrusive and can be turned off. it does save you. i love my VDC especially in the rain. One time i turned it off to do a doughnut, first doughnut ever. turned it off did my doughnut spun out had a laugh, young and dumb. then every light on my dash was lit. my slip light, my VDC off wouldn't go away my Brake light. i was crapping my pants. i then turned off my engine praying i'd restart it and it would be fine and it was. One time i had to use VDC off was when i was in snow trying to get into my garage up my driveway in an inch or two of snow. for a light RWD this can be difficult. the engine was cutting my power causing me to not make it. Once off and revved i made it in no problem.

Launch Control is only really used to go 0-60, how often do you launch a car hard? i mean honestly, racing a car normally invovles a rolling start. most ppl like to show off thats why its there. its not made to be used its made to be like oh yeah i have this wanna see? a performance car doesn't need to go 0-60 or quarter mile, it goes in corners. if they did build a better system it might be slower, think of it that way

[culver]

It is a journalist (Edmunds). You could argue that Nissan has no control over what the journalist says. That is somewhat true but if Nissan shows them how to use the launch control so the reviewer will say how fast the car is, well that's close enough.

I assume "Most cases" refers to the 4WD case. How many passenger cars did you have with part time 4WD? In the US we had a number of part time 4WD trucks but I can't think of any part time 4WD cars. I guess the 4WD version of the Corolla I owned would lock the center dif but it wouldn't say engage the dif lock for any performance driving.

I know many cars have a disable DSC function. However, it's not like disabling the DSC puts a significantly increased risk on the drive train. Doing the same with the Nissan does significantly increase the risk.

In the case of the Ferrari it sounds like nothing broke but Ferrari was demanding a new, shorter/ more demanding service interval. I don't think we could say that "replace gearbox" is part of a service interval. Then again, maybe Nissan thinks it is thus a making a good case to not buy one.

Ultimately, this is about buyer perception, not legalities. The owner, assuming the story is 100% true and complete, is up a creak with out a paddle. Nissan doesn't own him anything. However, this doesn't look good for Nissan. I suspect it will come back to haunt them and they likely will loose sales due to this issue.

I would add that it could really hurt the value of late model second hand GTRs. If I buy a 1 year old Accord I expect some warranty coverage. Imagine buying a GTR then having a failure only to be told the car wasn't actually covered due to the previous owner using the launch control 4 times. Sure buyer be ware but the whole truth would be Nissan buyers be ware.

You're view is the driver got what he deserved. My view is Nissan was rather shady about the whole thing, though not technically in violation of their warranty contract. I do believe it was reasonable to assume the car wouldn't have a catistraphic transmission failure after what sounds like a few launches ("few" could be every time the car was ever driven as we only have one side of the story). Thus Nissan doesn't owe him anything but it reflects badly on Nissan and will likely turn off buyers. I don't blame him for being pissed.

[LeonOfTheDead]

....for a light RWD this can be difficult....

for an fwd car, it would have been eve more difficult

never had problems with esp/dsc/vdc or whatever they call it while on snow, but with 120/150hp at maximum, even if the latter with very large 18" tires.
I know it's something quite frequent in NA, could it be due also to different tires or its composition?

[cmcpokey]

owning a Nissan, i know a thing or two about VDC. IT WORKS! it's a great stystem thats not too intrusive and can be turned off. it does save you. i love my VDC especially in the rain. One time i turned it off to do a doughnut, first doughnut ever. turned it off did my doughnut spun out had a laugh, young and dumb. then every light on my dash was lit. my slip light, my VDC off wouldn't go away my Brake light. i was crapping my pants. i then turned off my engine praying i'd restart it and it would be fine and it was. One time i had to use VDC off was when i was in snow trying to get into my garage up my driveway in an inch or two of snow. for a light RWD this can be difficult. the engine was cutting my power causing me to not make it. Once off and revved i made it in no problem.

umm, yeah, young hooligan stuff doing donuts in a g35.. i'd know nothing about that... at age 26....

never had a problem with all my warning lights coming on. with the TC on it will indicate 'slip' but with it off, the only warning it will give me is the shift light.

i also like the TC in the G. it works very well when coupled with the LSD. for fast driving on the road i actually prefer it on. but when you just want to have a good time, it is fun to watch hundreds of dollars of tire go up in blue tire smoke.

coolie, is your auto or stick?

[PRC777]

Wouldn't it be the consumer's fault for not doing enough research on the GT-R? Keep in mind that the dealership doesn't have to disclose everything (manipulation of the VDC in this GT-R owner's case) on its specs in thie advertisements to let the buyer know what they are buying. I second the opinion regarding the driver's limits to pushing a car to its limits.
Ultimately, one can come to the conclusion that this case with the GT-R owner is nothing more than "Caveat Emptor" issue.

[coolieman1220]

umm, yeah, young hooligan stuff doing donuts in a g35.. i'd know nothing about that... at age 26....

never had a problem with all my warning lights coming on. with the TC on it will indicate 'slip' but with it off, the only warning it will give me is the shift light.

i also like the TC in the G. it works very well when coupled with the LSD. for fast driving on the road i actually prefer it on. but when you just want to have a good time, it is fun to watch hundreds of dollars of tire go up in blue tire smoke.

coolie, is your auto or stick?

i wish she was a stick but sadly she is an auto. i also wish i had an LSD but sadly auto's dun get those! the only problem i dun like with my traction is when i let the tail out to play the VDC cuts throttle too much. with VDC off the car is very easy to play with it steps out but gets back in line easily. i tested a new G37 and the VDC didn't cut throttle as noticeably which was nice also the rev matched downshifting is really nice along with faster shifts. what year and model is yours?

[digitalcraft]

It is a journalist (Edmunds). You could argue that Nissan has no control over what the journalist says. That is somewhat true but if Nissan shows them how to use the launch control so the reviewer will say how fast the car is, well that's close enough.

I assume "Most cases" refers to the 4WD case. How many passenger cars did you have with part time 4WD? In the US we had a number of part time 4WD trucks but I can't think of any part time 4WD cars. I guess the 4WD version of the Corolla I owned would lock the center dif but it wouldn't say engage the dif lock for any performance driving.

I know many cars have a disable DSC function. However, it's not like disabling the DSC puts a significantly increased risk on the drive train. Doing the same with the Nissan does significantly increase the risk.

In the case of the Ferrari it sounds like nothing broke but Ferrari was demanding a new, shorter/ more demanding service interval. I don't think we could say that "replace gearbox" is part of a service interval. Then again, maybe Nissan thinks it is thus a making a good case to not buy one.

Ultimately, this is about buyer perception, not legalities. The owner, assuming the story is 100% true and complete, is up a creak with out a paddle. Nissan doesn't own him anything. However, this doesn't look good for Nissan. I suspect it will come back to haunt them and they likely will loose sales due to this issue.

I would add that it could really hurt the value of late model second hand GTRs. If I buy a 1 year old Accord I expect some warranty coverage. Imagine buying a GTR then having a failure only to be told the car wasn't actually covered due to the previous owner using the launch control 4 times. Sure buyer be ware but the whole truth would be Nissan buyers be ware.

You're view is the driver got what he deserved. My view is Nissan was rather shady about the whole thing, though not technically in violation of their warranty contract. I do believe it was reasonable to assume the car wouldn't have a catistraphic transmission failure after what sounds like a few launches ("few" could be every time the car was ever driven as we only have one side of the story). Thus Nissan doesn't owe him anything but it reflects badly on Nissan and will likely turn off buyers. I don't blame him for being pissed.

I agree with culver here. Nissan pulled one over on the guy and he's out $20,000.