Loeb: a unique talent

[henk4]

Whatever people may say nowadays about WRC, nobody can deny that becoming world champion for five consecutive years is a unique fate. Sebatien Loeb has just done that and deserves undivided praise and congratulations for this. That he does it in a brand of car I personally like but many here will never have an opportunity to drive is of a secondary nature

[Klemmel]

Not my favourite rally driver (Marko Märtin & Marcus Grønholm are), but he is very skilled and deserves the title. That he does it in a Citroën is too bad

[faksta]

He's obviously a professional, I guess 5 times champion just cannot be a matter of luck...

[Wouter Melissen]

He also finished on the podium at Le Mans in 2006.

[Ferrer]

I'm sorry but rallying today is a pale shadow of what it used to be.

Loeb is great driver, but nowhere close to the all time greats.

[Kitdy]

I'm sorry but rallying today is a pale shadow of what it used to be.

Loeb is great driver, but nowhere close to the all time greats.

Ferrer as usual cuts to the chase.

Whether he is right or not I have no idea as I don't follow rallying - mostly becasue it is not shown here. When I was in Scotland I saw that they condensed the weekend's events and showed them on Dave which was cool. I guess the nature of rallying does not make it live TV friendly.

[Zytek_Fan]

I'm sorry but rallying today is a pale shadow of what it used to be.

Loeb is great driver, but nowhere close to the all time greats.

Agreed.
I personally don't think Loeb is as good as any of the Group B era drivers (Toivonen, Mikkola, Blomqvist, Salonen, Kankkunen, Alen, Vatanen)

[RacingManiac]

I think the fact that he can infact win 5 in a row in a championship that traditionally hasn't seen a dominating person speaks volume. He surpassed the all-time win record in a relatively short career, and was able to deliver consistently year after year, I think it is not fair to say he is not comparable to the all-time great.

[Zytek_Fan]

I think the fact that he can infact win 5 in a row in a championship that traditionally hasn't seen a dominating person speaks volume. He surpassed the all-time win record in a relatively short career, and was able to deliver consistently year after year, I think it is not fair to say he is not comparable to the all-time great.

I do believe he is talented, but I think his success could be more attributed to the great machinery Citroen has provided him year after year.

[Ferrer]

I think the fact that he can infact win 5 in a row in a championship that traditionally hasn't seen a dominating person speaks volume. He surpassed the all-time win record in a relatively short career, and was able to deliver consistently year after year, I think it is not fair to say he is not comparable to the all-time great.

The problem for me is not the winning record, or the speed or the domination.

Rallying used to be until quite recently, and unlike most other motorsports, the ultimate test of man and machine. The array of conditions exposed to rally drivers were unmatched by any other motorsport. There was speed and endurance, night and day, in all sorts of surfaces and all sorts of weather conditions.

Today rallying is nothing more than a circuit race held on roads. Three stages a day if they are lucky and don't worry if you crash or make a mistake, you can always restart the next day. The effort and talent required to win is gone and in its place there's uniformity everywhere.

I want gruelling Safaris, mad Portugals or beautiful Sanremos. The RAC is pale shadow of its former self and the magic of the Turini is gone. That's not rallying, it may be something else but it certainly isn't rallying.

[pimento]

Rallying: The ultimate test of health and safety regs vs enjoyment.

Of course the other reason we don't have safari rallys and 9 stage days anymore is cost. It's a shame, but the safari rally was getting too expensive to run - both for the teams needing to fly choppers to spot for each car and for insurance to be able to run the event in the first place. Look what happened to the Dakar rally... Also, there's ever more pressure on organisers to keep costs down to try and keep up the entrant lists and manufacturer involvement. It'd be excellent to have a return to huge and gruelling events, but unfortunately that's pretty unlikely to happen.

As for Loeb, I'm not a fan of his at all.. but he is a special talent.

[RacingManiac]

I do believe he is talented, but I think his success could be more attributed to the great machinery Citroen has provided him year after year.

even when he was driving a year old Xsara in the "private" Citroen against the new cars?

and Ferrer, the same argument can be make for modern F1 cars vs old cars, and modern F1 tracks vs old tracks. The Champion of any given season is the one that performs the best under the cards that were dealt. And the requirement for being a winning driver certainly have changed quite a bit. Just because he did it in the "modern" era doesn't mean that he is not on the level of the greats. Thats the same crap people always say about comparing Schumacher's record against the previous champions. The champions always knows how to win under the given condition, and go do it. Be it as driving overpowered Group B cars in Africa or the modern WRC cars in Catalunya. All their competitors are doing the same thing as they are, and the champion was able to beat them to win. Loeb was able to do it year after year for the last few seasons, and I think thats a pretty damn good record...

[Zytek_Fan]

I will say it's getting better in WRC, now that more drivers can challenge for victory.

[Ferrer]

and Ferrer, the same argument can be make for modern F1 cars vs old cars, and modern F1 tracks vs old tracks. The Champion of any given season is the one that performs the best under the cards that were dealt. And the requirement for being a winning driver certainly have changed quite a bit. Just because he did it in the "modern" era doesn't mean that he is not on the level of the greats. Thats the same crap people always say about comparing Schumacher's record against the previous champions. The champions always knows how to win under the given condition, and go do it. Be it as driving overpowered Group B cars in Africa or the modern WRC cars in Catalunya. All their competitors are doing the same thing as they are, and the champion was able to beat them to win. Loeb was able to do it year after year for the last few seasons, and I think thats a pretty damn good record...

I never said Loeb is short on talent or speed.

However it takes a special man to defeat all-conquering 4WD machines in your two wheel drive car in the same way that it takes a special man to overcome a lost minute in the fearsome Nurburgring.

I agree that in todays highly computerised and prepared world where millions and millions are spent in order to ensure victory those great moments won't be repeated. And that's our loss.

Rallying, though, was the last of the true challenges.

[henk4]

However it takes a special man to defeat all-conquering 4WD machines in your two wheel drive car

isn't that how he started in the Xsara kit car?