good point, if the gumpert is tricky then it may have had a freak lap, lol. the viper might be slower but perhaps it is consistently achieving it's times.
good point, if the gumpert is tricky then it may have had a freak lap, lol. the viper might be slower but perhaps it is consistently achieving it's times.
Andreas Preuninger, Manager of Porsche High Performance Cars: "Grandmas can use paddles. They aren't challenging."
True. I think that's where the longer laps can help a little, but really "the fastest car" is so dependant on specific tracks and drivers and conditions that people are always going to complain about inconsistencies. Still I don't think you'd be short of volunteer drivers for these enduro comparisons.
Big cities suck
"Not putting miles on your Ferrari is like not having sex with your girlfriend so she'll be more desirable to her next boyfriend." -Napolis
I am not saying the adjustable aero and suspension by themselves are not street legal. I'm saying that components on the splitter as used for the 'Ring test have been deemed illegal in some parts of the US. I'm not going to delve into the federal motor vehicle code, but perhaps there are laws regarding parts of the car extending a certain distance beyond the leading edge of the bumper; these laws could be designed for pedestrian safety purposes.
From the C&D test:
"For the street, [Chrysler engineer Jeff] Reece unbolted the front splitter (illegal for the street, it removes easily with eight bolts and fits under the hatch)..."
I would be amazed if C&D came to the conclusion that the splitter was illegal all on their own.
Ah, I see what you're saying. That's correct, but it's a little part that comes standard with the car and easily bolts and unbolts. It's not like it's that big, either, it just fills in a little dip in the splitter. Here it is with and without that bolted on. Minor details.
Big cities suck
"Not putting miles on your Ferrari is like not having sex with your girlfriend so she'll be more desirable to her next boyfriend." -Napolis
no
the Ring is a long track & is very bumpy & uneven , it shows real world road ability far better than short tracks
with its length , an easy to push car is going to have a great time & a difficult to drive car is going to have a horrible time
short distances dont show the difference enough
The variables don't come from the track, they come from having different drivers, different levels of track knowledge, different weather conditions, all that sort of stuff. As far as the track goes, it would be a good way to show real world ability.. all else being equal.
Last edited by clutch-monkey; 09-02-2009 at 12:48 AM.
Andreas Preuninger, Manager of Porsche High Performance Cars: "Grandmas can use paddles. They aren't challenging."
I'll admit that if they're only a couple seconds apart I generally call it a draw, but what do you suggest as a better alternative? Not many track are as well known or respected world wide, so how do you choose which one track will be the benchmark? There's always going to be variables, one car will run much faster (relatively) on a tighter course than a more open course, or vice versa, so saying which car will be fastest on any course by using one course is futile anyways. And judging the "street performance" is also futile since none of the cars being discussed could be run anywhere near their limits on public streets in anything even remotely resembling a safe manner. It's just jello wrestling; an entertaining way of ranking cars that doesn't really decide which one you want to take home.
Big cities suck
"Not putting miles on your Ferrari is like not having sex with your girlfriend so she'll be more desirable to her next boyfriend." -Napolis
How many people here race cars?
I'm guessing not many. Therefore, what's the point of having the absolute fastest lap time?
Lack of charisma can be fatal.
Visca Catalunya!
I recently did my first lap around the Ring, it was on my bicycle and it took me 1 hour and about 15 minutes (distance 28 km). There are some quite steep climbs there.
"I find the whole business of religion profoundly interesting, but it does mystify me that otherwise intelligent people take it seriously." Douglas Adams
^^^^^^^^^ picsorban
I also race, hillclimb and rally. Classics mainly, but also a few outings with the RX-8 -- yes including a full on gravel stage !!! yikes
I also do some track tuition and have an apartment at the 'Ring.
What relevance are ring times ?
Nowhere near the top of the list of things to have in a car ( road or competition ).
BUT, I think the value of the 'Ring times are
1. Proves the car IS capable and has few vices ( or at least small enough to be surmounted )
2. Increases confidence of car for daily use ... why ? Because "proper" 'Ring testing puts on lots of miles stressing suspension and other components, so improviong things for road use.
3. It's great for internet debates
4. It attracts drivers to want to bring their cars and see how they do. ( sic. )
as said, tho', it's jsut a number and once you get with 10-15 seconds of each other it's moot. If looking at it from a road use persepctive I'd even suggest getting within 1 minute is enough
I view it like bhp/litre. An insight into other things but not a true metric.
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