Banned
Originally Posted by culver
"The first time the leaders of the Big Three approached Washington for help, in September 2008, the request was for loan guarantees to help them respond to the gas prices that had soared that summer by converting quickly from gas-guzzling S.U.V.'s to more fuel efficient cars. "
Thus, the Chevy Volt. sept 2008 was when the bail out frenzy was in full swing in the USA. Here is the whole story.
Auto Industry Bailout News - The New York Times
Banned
"The Volt, for example, could initially cost GM about $40,000 to produce while competing with conventional cars that sell in the $20,000 range. Even with the new $7,500 tax credit for plug-in hybrids, it will take years of improved efficiencies to make it profitable for GM."
Auto bailout: Steven Rattner on how the Obama team did it - Oct. 21, 2009
Enthusiast
What? How is that at all related to what you are claiming? Your first link is basically a non sequiter.
Your second link is correct in saying that the Volt will not be profitable in it's first years or likely the first version. Neither was the Prius. I doubt the Leaf will be either.
You said the Volt was "a scam". I assume you mean the Volt won't hit the market. Try backing that up. The Volt is as real a product as the Leaf and really makes a hell of a lot more sense. The Leaf really isn't that impressive given that Ford, GM, Honda and Toyota all had electric cars a decade ago. The only thing the Leaf does is update the battery technology.
Sorry, the whole premise of this thread is off the deep end.
For Great Justice.
Preach, culver.
But of course, never let the facts get in the way of a good conspiracy story.
Do I think the Volt will be good? I don't know, thats the point, no one does. IT'S NOT RELEASED YET. And to claim otherwise is just plain ignorance.
<cough> www.charginmahlazer.tumblr.com </cough>
Banned
What do you call a vehicle used in obtaining loans, but has never hit the market as promised, as the release date keeps getting shifted????? We call that a scam. GM should be held to the terms of the loan they obtained as they had had enough time to release the Volt. This is no conspiracy theory. The links I provided speak for themselves.
And could you possiblt explain why it is taking forever for the Volt to hit the market, if it was not designed to be a scam on the american psyche in just the same way the EV-1 electric car, produced by GM in the early nineties was used as a scam by GM to make us beleive they were going green? What happened to the EV-1?? They were all crushed and scrapped by GM.
Last edited by G35COUPE; 02-01-2010 at 08:04 AM.
Enthusiast
I would call it the "Leaf" as soon as I would call it the Volt. The release date for the Volt has never shifted. Did the release date for the Leaf shift? Hard to say because GM took the very bold step of announcing their project a long time ago. Nissan may have shifted the date but we just don't know.
I also don't know why you think it's taking the Volt that long to hit the streets. Let's think for a moment. At best a new car takes about 2 full years to develop. That assumes it doesn't have any radical new technology and is basically a conventional car. The Volt isn't. The Volt was first shown at the '07 Detroit auto show. That was just over 3 years back. They first said it would be produced in July of '07. It was formally approved for production in June of '08. So if the autoshow was in January we are at best 3 years from that date. Using the July date we are less than three years from the start of the project.
Three years is a rather standard time frame to develop a new vehicle. When you consider that this car not only involves a new car but a totally new powertrain that has never been used in any production car well, perhaps that might take a bit longer than a run of the mill car design. If the Volt shows up this year as it is expected to (you haven't shown otherwise) then GM will have been working on it for about 3 1/2 years. That's hardly longer than a standard car project and quite impressive when you consider what all the company has been going through over the last 3 years.
The Leaf is little more than a Nissan subcompact with an electric drivetrain. GM and others had that over a decade ago. What took Nissan so long? You haven't shown any broken GM promises any more than I've shown broken Nissan promises. The difference is I'm not screaming that Nissan is cheating anyone.
Enthusiast
Its not like GM woke up one day and said "lets just destroy all the EV-1's because it has served its purpose of suckering America for the time being". The reason they were eventually crushed and scrapped was that there was nothing else to do with them that made economic sense.
The ev-1 was extremely expensive to build, even more expensive to maintain, and was a very limited model that they didn't make any money on. Nobody bought them, and nobody really wanted to buy them outside of some fleet buyers which is really what they were intended for.
Electric cars are silly and with current technology will never be more than a niche car in America. Thats the whole point of the volt. It does everything an EV-1 did (drive short distances using nothing buy electric power) only its better because once you hit that 50 mile mark, YOU CAN KEEP DRIVING WITHOUT HAVING TO PLUG THE CAR IN AND CHARGE IT FOR 8 HOURS!
A woman goes to the doctor to figure out why she is having breathing problems...The doctor tells her she is overweight. She says she wants a second opinion...the doctor says, "your ugly".
Banned
GM pried the EV-1 from the hands of those who bought it. They literally went from house-to-house to collect and destroy the EV-1 even when the limited owners begged GM to sell it to them. GM destroyed the EV-1 because it had the potential of reducing the future profitability from selling SUVs.
Fanatic
Got proof? I'da thunk it'd be more about it being cost prohibitive to have to provide parts and expertise for a niche model that doesn't share bits and pieces with existing models making it not cost effective to sell them off to the people that leased them. So, in short, it reduces future profitibility from the rest of the range.. but not because of lost sales, because even GM knows that they're not the same market.
Life's too short to drive bad cars.
Fanatic
Maybe if these guys continued building electric cars we would never have had to worry about oil! It was probably FORD because they're so forward thinking! See, tiller steering is the future!
Does anyone know what this is actually? I saw it last tuesday...
Life's too short to drive bad cars.
Enthusiast
Do you actually believe that? This is my question to gauge whether or not I should take you seriously or just assume you are in lala land.
Banned
Culver, its okay for a man to live in la la land sometimes. On that last statement, it was a moderate hyperbole designed to satisfy a burning desire to keep knocking GM and its inept management, until they decide on their own to do the right thing for their customers and the USA in general. Maybe my love for GM is causing me to find ways to knock them. Its called agape love. I love GM so much that I am willing to knock them until they awake from their self induced slumber and deceit.
Last edited by G35COUPE; 02-01-2010 at 06:44 PM.
Enthusiast
Belief in what you said would put you deep in lala land. You may know the difference but sadly many people really believe just what you said. Those people are idiots.
Banned
Anyone care to know more about the EV-1???????????
Revenge of the EV1: crushing EV1 crushed GM
Enthusiast
If I cared to learn more about the EV-1 I wouldn't visit that site.
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