Hey PC guys....

[roosterjuicer]

Apple's reliability is both its blessing and its curse.

Part of the reason apples work well is because they build it the way they think is best and you are basically stuck with it. On the one hand, they do design some great products, on the other hand, there is is almost no personalization of settings. Additionally, there are very few programs or products you can download or buy if you aren't crazy about the apple product. And if you do, its a huge headache because apple makes their products so they dont work with anyone elses.

This makes for fast, reliable products because everyone who develops something really only has to develop for a small variation of hardware and software combinations.

The problem is that in order to get full functionality of everything in your life, easily, you have to have apple everything.

I think what screws up windows is all the crap you download for it to personalize it. since ive started running it, i have downloaded all kinds of stuff trying to find the perfect "to do list" gadget, e mail program, music player, antivirus, etc. I noticed my computer was starting to use a little bit more ram after that. Once i found everything i liked, i did a full uninstall of all the other stuff and the ram use is back to where it was when i first got it. This isn't a problem with apples because there's not a whole lot to download. However, i know i started having some issues with my imac when i was trying to get it to properly sync with my blackberry (never really successful) and with my droidx (more successful, but still not really).

[faksta]

The personalization you speak about is something you indeed MUST do to make Windows enjoyable. When you install the new OS from Microsoft, you don't have: sound, net, USB, etc. And you MUST reinstall Windows from time to time, otherwise it slows down significantly and no RegCleaners viceversa can help - the system svaes too much information which no one even cares about. The Mac isn't mine, it's my father's actually, but having used it for quite a time, I have to say that I haven't thought of personalization - it just didn't struck my mind, it was unnecessary.

Then there's antivirus, which also slows down your PC quite a lot, especially when it decides to check for upgrades.

On my current HP there's a huuuge problem with Internet. To connect to Wi-Fi (a home net via router) I spend much time looking at the monitor which says 'Couldn't connect'. Mac connects immediately (and sees more nets, by the way).

And then the speed. To switch Mac on you need to wait around 15 seconds, for Windows based computer it is around 5-7 minutes, sometimes more. Same time for switching off. That's not so crucial, but that makes a very good impression.

P.S. I lied when I said I didn't want to personalize the Mac. I've installed Google Chrome on it. But that's all

[Brix]

A sad fact about most computer users is that people don't complain about their computers, unless they break completely.
I know several persons who lives with more or less faulty computers, without complaining about it, or even thinking of getting it repaired.
A mather of fact is that reliability studies of everything (except cars), is very poor as an argument as there is too many factors to involve to use it for anything.
This is the reason why always use myself as an example, with my Mac running 4 years with only 1 crash, and I have never heard anyone who could state the same with a Windows.

[Matra et Alpine]

faksta I don't knwo what windows or computer you are using but it needs looked at as the list you gave dont reflect reality
ONE aspect of choices to download I can see visible is that Microsoft were forced to "be open" and so a user has to decide who's internet they use and who's browser because others bleated that MS were doing it all.
NOBODY tried that one on Apple -- but if their market share ever became significant they'll get hit the same
Your internet issue has nothing to do with the OS - unless you're running Windows 3.1
Equally the stretching of times ( in both directions ) is making me laugh in tears.
NO Apple boots up in 15 secs and ANY PC that takes 5 minutes has been patched/modified by someone who should not have been let near it.

@Brix: Agree, and why that at least removed one aspect of statistical analysis issue with sampling. However, ONE SAMPLE - yourself - is never valid and is doomed to never make significant improvements and possible horrendous mistakes
Get the sample size up large enough and it DOES become valid.
nb, people complain about PCs ALL the time, it's the type ..... Apple users tend not to so much as it woudl destroy the image of perfection they've been psychologically maniplulated into believing ... OK, not really but damn close

[Brix]

Equally the stretching of times ( in both directions ) is making me laugh in tears.
NO Apple boots up in 15 secs and ANY PC that takes 5 minutes has been patched/modified by someone who should not have been let near it.

@Brix: Agree, and why that at least removed one aspect of statistical analysis issue with sampling. However, ONE SAMPLE - yourself - is never valid and is doomed to never make significant improvements and possible horrendous mistakes
Get the sample size up large enough and it DOES become valid.
nb, people complain about PCs ALL the time, it's the type ..... Apple users tend not to so much as it woudl destroy the image of perfection they've been psychologically maniplulated into believing ... OK, not really but damn close

Well my friends Macbook Pro with 8gb ram, and SSD harddrive does it in 14 sec . But that's when it has just been formatted.

True, one can never use oneself as a true argument.
But we can all agree on that computer surveys will never speak the truth .
And this debate is a bit fun, but we must all agree that Macintosh and Windows have pro's and con's which all depends on who you are and what you use your computer too.

[Matra et Alpine]

Yep and minimum Windows can get sub 30s easy.
BUT it's not a very useful environment ... and less important now that some makers are donig the clever "media only" startups with Linux-based solutions in instant-on BUT able to read and use the Office and media info stored on the disk.

NO survey ever speaks "truth" .... they are only surveys so rely on extending a sample to a wider population. The rescueme one seemed to have a level field in one respect as it wasnt' reliant on manufacturer calls. Thus not unreasonable to make inferrences from.

and spot on in last para .. and why I'll often pitch in these kind of discussions on both sides at different times

Customers can start their Lenovo PC on average 20 seconds faster than a typical Windows 7 computer2 thanks to Lenovo RapidBoot technology featured on all Enhanced Experience 2.0 PCs.

On select Lenovo EE 2.0 PCs with optional RapidDrive SSD technology, users can start their PCs in less than 10 seconds and open applications two times faster.

[jcp123]

Apple's reliability is both its blessing and its curse.

Part of the reason apples work well is because they build it the way they think is best and you are basically stuck with it. On the one hand, they do design some great products, on the other hand, there is is almost no personalization of settings. Additionally, there are very few programs or products you can download or buy if you aren't crazy about the apple product. And if you do, its a huge headache because apple makes their products so they dont work with anyone elses.

This makes for fast, reliable products because everyone who develops something really only has to develop for a small variation of hardware and software combinations.

The problem is that in order to get full functionality of everything in your life, easily, you have to have apple everything.

I think what screws up windows is all the crap you download for it to personalize it. since ive started running it, i have downloaded all kinds of stuff trying to find the perfect "to do list" gadget, e mail program, music player, antivirus, etc. I noticed my computer was starting to use a little bit more ram after that. Once i found everything i liked, i did a full uninstall of all the other stuff and the ram use is back to where it was when i first got it. This isn't a problem with apples because there's not a whole lot to download. However, i know i started having some issues with my imac when i was trying to get it to properly sync with my blackberry (never really successful) and with my droidx (more successful, but still not really).

That's pretty much what I was going to say. They keep things close to the vest which allows them to tailor the entire package to work well together. And the care in assembly goes a long way too - my unibody MacBook has amazing fit and finish. That used to be Apple's Achilles heel, but they have quite masterfully turned it into their "killer app", as it were.

Windows machines are a little more of the wild wild west variety.

[Brix]

A funny thing just occurred to me
Windows is more free - ei. more American - You have "complete" control over the whole computer, if everything works well, then it's your benefit, if everything falls apart, it's your own fault (in one way or another, ex treating it bad, having no anti-virus, or simply being cheap in some areas when buying).

Mac on the other hand is more like Europe. A more strict "frame" for the user. There are few options, but everything works from day one, and almost no matter how bad you are with it, it will work. (In this thinking that health care is "free" (paid by the state in one way) in most parts of europe, And generally there is a lot of rules to "protect" the citizen).

If this was 100% true, it's funny that Macintosh is growing fastest in the US, and not in EU, since the Macintosh can be seen as "un"-american.

[roosterjuicer]

And this debate is a bit fun, but we must all agree that Macintosh and Windows have pro's and con's which all depends on who you are and what you use your computer too.

Exactly why i bought a mac and did the bootcamp partition. That way, i could use both!

[jcp123]

I'm just sad windows doesn't let me pick colours like win 95 and 3.1 did...

[Matra et Alpine]

@Briz, I think the reason it doesn't follow your model is it's flawed and shows far too much of "Glenn Beck/Fox" influence on your knowledge/understanding of Europe
Most of us dont have restrictive union practices for example !!!!

[pimento]

The idea that you have to reinstall Windows every year is a very outdated one, I had an install of XP that survived three and a half years, two video cards and a motherboard/CPU swap. All on a 13GB system hard drive. Granted it there was a repair install or two in that time, but if you don't get about messing with things too much you won't have huge issues.

JCP, there are some colours you can change in Windows 7, but it is harder to get the full harlequin effect you could get in the old ones. Not sure that's a bad thing though!

[jcp123]

Oh I had some tacky schemes it was part of the fun messing with the colours! Why Microsoft chose to do away with that is a mystery to me...

[Matra et Alpine]

^ you can still create your own scheme with any wacky images and colours you want to
It's all still there jcp .... but we have to ask WHY IS it that important to have your favourite shade of pink on your window surround ?

[culver]

The idea that you have to reinstall Windows every year is a very outdated one, I had an install of XP that survived three and a half years, two video cards and a motherboard/CPU swap. All on a 13GB system hard drive. Granted it there was a repair install or two in that time, but if you don't get about messing with things too much you won't have huge issues.

JCP, there are some colours you can change in Windows 7, but it is harder to get the full harlequin effect you could get in the old ones. Not sure that's a bad thing though!

Ironically an enthusiastic mac using friend of mine just did the reinstall cleanup with his unibody Power Macbook