mazdaspeed 6 vs TL

[Slicks]

is this any use?:

Not really considering that doesnt show weight of the cars, or gearing, or how those figures where achieved.

[Ferrer]

Funny, I found different:
MB E550 (the only 5.5L V8 MB E-class I found): 15/23mpg
BMW 550i: 14/21

Erm...

Maybe different measuring systems?

[Slicks]

You need not protect them to this extent. seriously, it sucks reading such comments from knowledgable guys like you.

Who/what am I protecting?

[Slicks]

Erm...

Maybe different measuring systems?

Yes, those are EPA numbers.

[Kitdy]

Who/what am I protecting?

I think that he thinks (and I think) you are trying to protect larger displacement engines as you are likely a fan of larger displacement engines. I am as well, but I think it must be admitted that larger engines tend to require more fuel to run.

[jediali]

That, for example jediali, is a very good example. It is not concrete proof by any means, but it is an excellent snapshot.

its from the bmw page itself

Not really considering that doesnt show weight of the cars, or gearing, or how those figures where achieved.

your point was you wanted consistent gearing, equipment, weight etc, so here you have it for a specific 3 series with level trim and gearbox supply.

How does a car get good fuel consumption? i say effective combustion (optimum bmep) over a varying range of engine speeds. bmw have various technologies that do this - bivanos, valvetronic in particular.

To aid this point a 2.0 evo fq400 will do worse than 4.2 FSI in the real world.

[Slicks]

your point was you wanted consistent gearing, equipment, weight etc, so here you have it for a specific 3 series with level trim and gearbox supply.

How does a car get good fuel consumption? i say effective combustion (optimum bmep) over a varying range of engine speeds. bmw have various technologies that do this - bivanos, valvetronic in particular.

To aid this point a 2.0 evo fq400 will do worse than 4.2 FSI in the real world.

So all of those beemers have the same gears, weight, unsprung weight, and power/torque?

[The_Canuck]

It's ludicrous to think that there is no correlation between larger displacment and less fuel economy.

[jediali]

So all of those beemers have the same gears, weight, unsprung weight, and power/torque?

cripes, this is like playing football while someone keeps moving the goals!,

Lets say the engines are in 2 identical cars: For two engines of differing sizes to produce same power and torque, in theory while one engine runs at stoichiometric (14.7:1 air/fuel ratio) the other one will have to burn lean to achieve same fuel consumption. Or the samller engine will have to have more mechanical losses (unlikely), or significantly worse indicated, thermal, or volumetric efficiencies. I cannot think of 2 engines of same size which the same power/torque characteristcs/magnitudes.

[Ferrer]

So all of those beemers have the same gears, weight, unsprung weight, and power/torque?

Usually (I know not always) bigger engine means more weight.

[Slicks]

It's ludicrous to think that there is no correlation between larger displacment and less fuel economy.

It's ludicrous to think that displacement will tell you milage before looking at weight, gearing, and aerodynamics.

[Slicks]

cripes, this is like playing football while someone keeps moving the goals!,

Lets say the engines are in 2 identical cars: For two engines of differing sizes to produce same power and torque, in theory while one engine runs at stoichiometric (14.7:1 air/fuel ratio) the other one will have to burn lean to achieve same fuel consumption. Or the samller engine will have to have more mechanical losses (unlikely), or significantly worse indicated, thermal, or volumetric efficiencies. I cannot think of 2 engines of same size which the same power/torque characteristcs/magnitudes.

So in other words, no they dont... All Im asking for is some unbiased proof, and all im getting are cars with different weights, gearings, and power/torque...

[Slicks]

Usually (I know not always) bigger engine means more weight.

In most cases its not even significant.

[Ferrer]

In most cases its not even significant.

Then why does the BMW 318i weight 1435kg and the BMW 330i 1555kg? Everything else is more or less the same, hence most of that 120kg increase must come from the bigger engine.

[Mr.Tiv]

So in other words, no they dont... All Im asking for is some unbiased proof, and all im getting are cars with different weights, gearings, and power/torque...

I sincerely doubt that the proof you're looking for exists. It seems unlikely that there would exist two different cars with exactly the same weight, gearings, and, here's where it gets implausible, the same power/torque whilst have two different displacement engines.