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| BMW M3 CSL |
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Add your comments on the BMW M3 CSL
| i would like to hate this car |
| wasabi 20-8-2003 |
but i can't. everything about it is so impressive (apart from the torque but then it is only a straight 6). on a totally different note, how many of you guys here actually drive a lot of cars? what do you base your judgements/comments about this car on? i mean, it hasn't been released for two months yet so many of you are ready, full of praise/critism of a car that you have not even driven. why don't you stop comparing numbers which really do mean nothing. who really cares if it can't match a lot cars on the nurgburgring? how many of you are really going to get close to the times the pro racers get on that anyway? |
| perfromance counts |
| Joslin 13-8-2003 |
"To all the nerds who think this car is a crap: see how it performs on the ""Nordschleife"" (the ultimate race track dividing men from mice and toys from machines!) 32 sec better than the everage M3, 6 sec better than the Porsche 996 Turbo, only 4 sec slower than the 996 GT2, equal to the Murci�lago, all cars that cost much more than the M3 CSL! Performance is not only a question of horsepower but of a package that makes it easier to keep the car under controll and as a result to go faster! And in fact it looks very sexy in real life. Sorry boys but for a true sports car fan who's interested in more than the stupid 0 - 60 (0-100) or v-max it must be really one of the most desirable cars in the world!" |
| re con. |
| sydneycsl 29-5-2003 |
"re cn . re costa. we're both of the same name and that's why i'm already connected to you somehow, but i think your opinions on the csl are quite fair. but then again i've also thought the same thing. Paing a lot more and getting less . But i suppose in order to understand how i feel, you yourself would have to be a serious m3 lover. that is : blinded almost by whatever they make. however what you must remember is that the M3 in general has had great respect worldwide and the csl is basically a unique version limited for those who want an m3 that's different. one has to pay for that privilage. my 360 is an italian piece of crap. all it has is a great studly name. and i agree with you: that paddle shift f1 is BULLSHIT. mine is manual anyway but i can tell you, it's nothing special. i enjoy driving my m3 more than the 360. i throw the m3 around like it's a part of me. the 360 has a life of its own...and beleive me : i can drive. and i paid 355 thousand australian dollars for it. thats about 180-200 us dollars. and beleive me i would sell it quiker than you can blink if i had to chose. lets face it. most supercars are overpriced but be honest with yourself. if you're going to talk $$$ and value for money, whether it's an m3 or a CSL, you're still far better off ""value wise"" than any other car on the market." |
| What the hell are you talking about! |
| carmaniac 22-3-2003 |
Hey, Motorhead. Get a life.This is for you. 1st you're a kid. 2nd yes, I said that Audi and Mercedes are crapy because they use komresors and turbos and still not get enough power or even torque. Their cars hardly or never exceed a 100 hp/l. 3rd If you're so much in the cars take some books and read a little. BMW is the first car ever that had produced a turbo engine. There are some cars with turbos and good engines. And whats that crap about Bugatti going 400 km/h. That's only on the papre, that's an assumed speed. Currently Lamborghini Murcielaggio is holding a world record as the fastest car, because it has been driven to the max. 4th and most important is that this is a great car, and M department has done a great job. |
| I want to add some things to the story of DJ AnCo |
| Steef 21-3-2003 |
"I want to add some things to the story of DJ AnCo. First I have to say I totally agree. About the weight reduction, BMW reduced the weight of the roof of the car with about 6 KG. This is very important to keep the centre of gravity as low as possible. (cornering speed) The other weight reductions where also made at strategical points, for example rotating parts. The rims of this CSL are even lighter than the optional ones at the regular M3. This is called INTELLIGENTE LEICHTBAU The M3 CSL has also got an improved braking system; the discs grew approx. 2 cm. And now about the engine. The max BHP and the torque haven�t increased that much, but the high power is available at a wider rpm band, instead of just a high peak power. Engineers strive to achieve maximum power with the widest possible power band. Dito for the Nm�s. These better curves make the engine more flexible and makes sure that the engine doesn�t have large gaps between gears. The wheels are positioned with negative camber. This has an immense influence on the cornering speed, but hardly noticeable from 0-100 kmh. I think AnCo and I made clear what we think. Let�s say that people should think first before jumping into any conclusions. Numbers are numbers, figures are figures. It�s all about the lap time. And that lap time has improved with many seconds with this new fantastic M3 CSL!" |
| turbos and supercharges are crap, really |
| motorhead 21-3-2003 |
who in the name of christ told you that. I think without them you would not have cars that accelerate faster than a bloody F16 fighter and reach speeds over 300km/h. Many car manufacturers use turbos and supercharges very often and one of them is audi. You don't go around insulting car companies like mercedes benz and especially audi because they use turbos. if there were no turbos the m3 would not have any competiton and cars like the veyron would not have attained over 400km/h in terms of top speeds. This car is good. It is just too bad many people think it is a waste of time and money. Until they drive then they will know but then there are still much better cars out there so i do not see why and what you people are arguing about. making a huge fuss over an air intake, what the hell man. |
| YEA |
| FREDZY 21-3-2003 |
Wow, it really is great to see intelligent comments on this car. There are two things I've become un-psyched about though. First off, the car is'nt going to be released in the US. C'mon what on earth here. Secondly, the colors its coming in are not track - like, like a dark silver and super dark grey black. Not that that even matters, but i would say black, white and silver should be its color options. It would be really neat to see a white one with motorsport checkers on the corners, like the E36 CSL, or LTW as it's often referred to as. It would be really cool if it came with racing components (that you could choose to install or not) like special oil pan, spoiler, exhaust and suspension components like the LTW. I'm sure it would void all warranties and be illegal for street use like the LTW too, though. |
| Now about THE car. |
| carmaniac 20-3-2003 |
In my last comment i wasted my entire time on oter people's comments. The car is very good. As one guy sad if you take 400lbs off the car and add some power performance is going to increase a lot. Those measurements about acceleration are not the same. They vary due to the track, conditions at the track. The car for sure will not have the same acceleration somewhere in Norway/Sweden and in Monza in Italy. If car is tested on a race track the acceleration and car's behavior will be different than on the streets. The car is not good, it is beutifull, superb, spectacular. IT IS A BMW. |
| use your brain |
| air13 20-3-2003 |
"All of you who are criticizing this car are not to bright. If you were intelligent and had any analytical skills you would be able to figure out that shaving 400lbs and adding a little power will make this car a lot faster. But no, rather than think you would rather just look at one quoted 0-60 time and say ""this car isn't any faster."" Anyone who knows anything about cars and has 2nd grade reasoning skills knows the car is going to be a lot faster. You keep saying that it is not much faster because BMW quotes a 0-60 time of 4.8 sec. As someone else said BMW also quoted a 0-60 time of 5.2 for a regular M3 and Motor Trend has tested it at 4.65... so use your brain and realize that one quoted 0-60 time doesn't mean much. As another post said, 0-60 isn't all that relevant on the track, and the track is what this car is built for. As far as overpriced, the regular M3 is as fast as a 911 and the M3 CSL will be much faster than a 911 for approxiametly the same price. If you don't like it that is fine, if it isn't your style just say so. But don't call it slow or not faster than the regular M3 because you only make yourself look like an uninformed and unintelligent." |
| To all You Who Think You Know. |
| carmaniac 18-3-2003 |
"Whay in the hell do you complain about fog lights? Are you scared? And you hotflank, have you driven this car? It is increadibly STUPID to waste time on your coments. All i have to say is that this is probably one of the best Bmw's yet. It has acceleration good enough to be compared with Porsche GT3. It has enough hp and again acceleration Without Kompresors, turbos or any other crap tha Merc and Audi use. That is why those cars Suck big time. You all ""car people"" need a role-model. You're an ebaracement for this web-site. The car is apsolutelly perfect. I need some fog lights, where can i get some fog lights, hahahaha. You're a joke." |
| Not made for the streets |
| DJ AnCo 17-3-2003 |
"This CSL is a magnificent machine. for all you people who don't understand here is an explanation: First of all this thing was build for the circuit; the changes made won't be that noticable on the streets. It's a racing car! The weight reduction of about 160 Kg is very important for multiple reasons. 1- Accelaration: 0-100kmh is faster, but a standing start will only happen once in a race. more important 2- Accelaration: 80-120 or 100-160 will go much faster than a regular M3. These accelerations are important on the track. 3- Cornering speed: this can be much faster in the CSL, cornering is very important on the track. 4- Braking: With lower weight driver can brake later before a turn. This will garentee a higher top and braking later will result in overtaking the opponent. These 4 points result in a much better track time. At the Zandvoort circuit in the Netherlands, they tested the CSL against the 'regular' M3. The CSL was a few(3 or 4) seconds faster around the track. This is a track car, made for racing, try to understand that and u will love the CSL" |
| you all don't really know why |
| motorhead 15-3-2003 |
All of you have complains and praises for this car but let me talk now. Firstly the styling. It obviously looks like a normal M3 from the outside but its not. Its mostly carbon fibre on the outside then the normal M3s alluminium body. Then you step inside and you see that there is no climate control and all the other toys in the normal m3. You go to the front and you see a round air intake missing. Basicaly who the hell cares about that unless you are just buying the car because of its aggresive front E46 styling. Then you look at the performance stats and you compare them with the stock m3 and you get the shock of your life. You are paying about 40000 more for a bmw which does not have all the toys and its performace it is not really that great compared to the stock m3. Then you think about trying it out on the track before signing you check. Then you will also get the shock of your life out on track. This is a car that has dynamics and respose like no other bmw on the planet, save for the manic E30 M3. You will never stop drving the car once you start thats how good the chassis is. It also does not have all the driving aid like ESP, traction, DSC(dynamic stability control) its only the driver and the car and actually it is the car that is doing everything. To me the BMW E30 M3 has lost its poll position and the BMW E46 M3 CSl has gone up! |
| this is one fine bad-a$$ car! |
| disturbed 14-3-2003 |
The M3s were always one of my favorite BMs, and this one makes no exception... styling wise, i dunno what happened but the dudes at BMW managed not to massacre the design like they did with the new 5 and 7 series... well done boys... so basically its got bad-a$$ style, lots of freaking power and a great price tag... those who complain bout speed not being enough, ha! go get urself a viper 8.0 if that's what u want... geez nothing's ever good enough for ya is it oh well. |
| Brilliant Machine |
| (/) 13-3-2003 |
First to answer some of the previous posts. These numbers mean absolutely NOTHING, 4.8 0-60mph, BMW also said the stock M3 would do that in 5.2 secs, Motor Trend tested the car and did 4.65secs. Thats just and example of how off numbers can sometimes be. I agree on the comment that says this car is one for purists, it is a track car mostly, and I believe it will be a fast one at that. Brilliant Styling, they shouldn't offer any other colors than sylver, anything else would just mutate the look into something awful. The only thing that should worry a buyer here is the reliability. I'm not saying BMW hasn't any, they have it alright, just that these kind of cars require a lot of maintenance after hefty EXERCISE. Well, the likes of the Modena, ZO6, and 911 TT should watch out, there's a new player in town and he's out to kik some ass... |
| Before I forget |
| capone 12-3-2003 |
I agree with FREDZY that Propercarnut and hotflank come from elementary school and mental disability clinics. Propercarnut, your comments are a joke especially the crap you wrote about the gearbox etc...Hotflank, the comment about the fog light made me laugh into stiches. I want to make it clear that I did say that BMW has lost their way on this car but this is no criticism on the performance of this car. It is tremendous. |
| BMW have lost their way |
| capone 12-3-2003 |
"I've always been a ""lover"" of M3s. Why ? Well because they are sports cars that don't look like sports cars. E.g. They never had huge wings and they are a 4 seater have air conditioning, leather trimmings etc... In other words they are luxury cars with sports like performance. Going back to my point, if air conditioning in an option well then they can have this car for themselves. In my country, this car would probably cost $150,000+ and without air conditioning and without satelite tracking as standard. No way. (Sure, if you feel this is a track car then sell it as a track car and nothing else). Taking out items so the car is lighter is a cheap way of getting better performance at the expense of driver comfort. Also, 2002 M3 owners would not approve as the resell value of their cars would have dropped. E.g. M3's usually come out every 5 or so years. Sorry BMW, you have lost your way on this." |
| Oh man.... |
| 333HPM3 12-3-2003 |
BMW's E46 M3 is one of the most amazing road cars in a really long time. It's sexy looks and amazing capabilities make it second to only it's bigger brother, the E46 M3 CSL. It's the pinnacle of unadulterated power, which is always just a flick of your foot away. Combine that with better handling, more style, grace and sex appeal and you have the envy of cars that cost 2-3 times as much. |
| Yeah, |
| FREDZY 12-3-2003 |
I agree with IBFR completely. They should have made the M3 like this in the first place, and not had to worry about shaving weight, etc. Not only would the M3 have enourmous credit to it's name (as its purpose is motorsport) but it would'nt have to cost so much extra. With facilities specialized for production of this car and its composite parts and basic interior, you would'nt have such a heavy price tag. As for slow, geeze I don't know. I have'nt driven a CSL, but since all I hear of them is that they are heaps faster... HEAPS faster than the regular M3, then I'm gonna have to conclude that it's SUPER @$^#*% fast! Aside from that, BMW officially says the North American M3 acheives 0 to 60 mph in 4.8 seconds. Whats up with that? I would like to know where the CSL's 0 to 60 number is coming from. Some schmuck at the Geneva booth probably blerted it out. I'd imagine the CSL to be capable of times nearing 4 seconds to 60. All in all, I think BMW had handling in mind when the thought about sport. |
| Track car in every sense of the word |
| IBrake4Rainbows 12-3-2003 |
methinks BMW may not have thought this through as well as one might have hoped. As a track day car it'd be superb, exploiting a great chassis by minimising all unneccesary weight and removing the radio and electric seats. and just for thedavieboy, i drive in a BMW and it don't have electric seats, it's the badge and the driving experiance that matters, okay? but back to my point. would it not have been easier just to give all this advancement to the normal M3, and not have to spend so much on making two models? seems to me a little daft, maybe BMW wanted a bit of heritage identity by giving a new model an old badge. |
| Nonsense!!! |
| hotflank 12-3-2003 |
FRENDYZ(or watever ur username is) how do u know that it is a pure enthusiasts car??? Have u driven it??? Obviously not! And Even still after taking off 400 POUNDS!!! This car is still freakin slow!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 4.8 secs? compared to the 5.1 secs of the older(2002) M3??? AND STILL AFTER taking off 400 pounds??? That's really stupid! BMW could have done much better |
| for m3-holics |
| thedavieboy 11-3-2003 |
"hmmm...i think this is BMW's attempt at a car that specifically targets m3-holics. It really isnt that much faster is it? and yea...what's with the manual seats and other lack of typical beamer options. i mean obviously to save weight but whats the point of driving this beamer with manual freakin' seats and no radio!!! basically, people who are already crazed m3 fans who think they can drive will buy this because it is the ""ultimate m3"".the m3 was already cool enough and plenty fast after a few mods. i just cant see rollin in this thing with no radio and havin' to crank my seat back, that blows! but i will say that it looks quite sexy, and i'll have to admit i want to make love to that car!" |
| Thank You |
| FREDZY 10-3-2003 |
"Proper car nut and hotflank, thank you for your enlightening opinions. I have always said that the best car critics come from elementary schools and mental disability clinics, and I was right. But really, the M3 CSL -IS- a purist enthusiast car. Shaving 400 pounds isn't enough? Have you ever driven a car with 3 other people in it, and then had them get out? 400 pounds is a whole lotta' weight. All of the materials were optimal for weight/cost effect. This car will sell for a little under or over $70,000 in Europe and Asia only, as I was informed by a BMW rep. As for the engine, power increase was of NO concern to BMW. The excess power in the CSL is a byproduct of the lightened reciprocating parts in the engine. I agree that the SMG could be left out, though. One thing I don't think people understand, is that numbers mean almost nothing. Best motoring competition results at Tsukuba raceway (a big track): NSX type R dominated a Murcialago until the last lap final stretch in one comparison, then that same (stock) NSX was handily defeated by a stock M3 in another Tsukuba track comparison. All drivers were professional touring car drivers, too. So the result: M3 is fast. The M3 had also prevailed in comparisons with Ferrari 360 Modenas -- numbers are'nt everytrhing. Finally, you consider that the concept CSL (which was modest compared to this official production car) bettered the ""regular"" M3's Nurburgring time By 30 seconds, and you realize that the CSL is very fast. Wrapped up in an AWEsomely styled E46 chassis, you have a seriously excellent machine for ~$70,000." |
| CON! |
| Propercarnut 10-3-2003 |
"Before I get started, that ""one fog light"" is actually an air intake, but still, you're right, it does look undeniably stupid. What a ripoff this car is though! The weight's not much less, and it has another 17hp. WOO HOO! It doesn't have any of the usual BMW gadgets, and really, the difference in performance and handling is negligable! BMW, what is the point?! The materials used are CHEAP, they're not even worth the extra however much you'll have to pay for the csl! They use plastic and fibreglass, not pure carbon fibre. Fibreglass is weak, it cracks easily, and it's quite heavy! If you're going to build a lightweight car, go the whole way - stripped out interior with recaro racing seats and a roll cage, not this pathetic attempt at weight reduction. Oh, and if this is meant to be a pure drivers' car, reengineered from the M3 to be even better for the driver, why has it got that HORRIBLE gearbox in it? For an automatic, or semiautomatic, or whatever you want to call it, it's quite good, but what is it doing in a drivers' car? It's almost as bad as the Ferrari version! Although that really is terrible." |
| Man! |
| hotflank 10-3-2003 |
Wat's up with this car??? It looks cool and all but why is one fog light missing? wat's use of taking that fog light out???weight???(i dun think so) and also the car is freaking slow for it's weight. BMW could have made the car much faster!!!More improvments can be made on this car....really! |
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