Are American Motoring Journalists too forgiving?

[jcp123]

Give me an example here...

Like...every time you break down what everybody says. Now, in general, I start out agreeing with you, but then you take it to a degree that's really soporific. I'd take a Viper probably over any other modern-day 2-seater, and Corvette ranks a hearty second, with a 911 third. But trying to convince everyone that the Vette or Viper are simply the best in the world and shouldn't be bagged on is not going to work.

[fpv_gtho]

Ive always loved HSV's since I went to the Birmingham NEC Sportscar Show 2001 so I was pretty chuffed when they decided to do a HSV Vauxhall. Theyre gonna make a 400bhp version of the Monaro arent they? Should be a laugh

We HAD a 300kw version called the GTS with the Callaway C4B in it, but they ended up sticking that on the specil build list when the GTO got 285kw and now that its got 297kw, theyve taken it off the market, but hey, whats 3kw when the engines got 20nm more than the C4B

you guys should be seeing it as the VXR edition pretty soon

[Matra et Alpine]

Sorry, i dont really know what your talking about. Please explain.

They way you aggresively cite a point of view which hasn't taken the alternative into consideration at all. It has led in the past to the repeition of the alternativetil it was understood. It's not conducive to conversation for a person to have toput that amount of work in to respond to the blunt commetns you put out.

Alot of the cars they test are friends cars, or just people they know.

WHAT ?
Valid for old and classic cars but NO manufacturer allows a major journalist or magazine to test a car that they didn't provide.
Do you really think car companies are that stupid ?

Not all are sent directly from the factory. It makes sence what your saying, but i doubt companies are doing that...

I never said "FACTORY". So using that as an extreme example isnt' reallly valid is it.
They're supplied from the merketing group of the caompany and may come from thir PR pool ( the ntorm for new cars ) or from a local dealer for small journalists

Are you saying that the magazine journalists are aware of the "adjustments" made to the factory cars? Id be surprised if they allowed that...

Of course they are !! They take on the responsibility for ensuring the cars are as they are meant to be. Fuel, tyres and even tune in the case of older cars. For exotic performance cars they ensure they're running 'sweet' - warmed up, temps+pressures ok etc.
MOST journalists actually only get to test drive a car at a special venue arranged BY the manufacturer - it's usually a circuit plus local roads.
Do you think a magazone sends a journalists to Spain or California or wherever at extra cost just for the fun ? NO, it's because THAT is where the manuf is hosting the test drives.
Some are donw as shoot-outs at tracks booked by a magazine. Again the manufactureres supply those cars.
The trick of 'tuning' for 0-60 gear change times is a more insideous act. Durign developmetn different mules are often setup with differing gearing "to test suitability". Guess which mules get used for 0-60 and which get used for consumption ?

And if they didnt know they would most likley find out, they dont just test one car and be done with it. They'll test numerous different cars (like two different 05 corvettes for example).

Other than different variants, what test has EVER had multiple Corvettes ?
With the exception of the manufacturer arranged tests where they will usually have up to 6 cars for all the worlds journalists to share ? But it's not the norm for the same person to take otu 2 cars as time with the car is short and controlled.

If one for some reason starts performing significantly better, then they'd probably figure that something is fishy...

'probably' - it all sounds conjecture, Slicks. I've never seen a magazine set out to test multiple copies - except where the first one breaks. Can you link me to an article that did, I'd be intrigued to see who the writer was.

Sorry, it sounded like you were saying the main point of it was for better acceleration, which was the farthest from the truth.

"sounded like"
That's an example of the "old Slicks" coming through There is a reason that the "think of 3 good before voicing the bad" was an approach oru business adopted under the guise (archibald tehnique). It woudl have stopped you following that "sounding like" bad habit.

[Coventrysucks]

The 'new' VXR Monaro will have the 6.0 LS2 with 400bhp and 390lb.ft, and will still be only £37,000.

Everybody loves the Monaro

[henk4]

Evo just drove the C6 and mentioned the changes made for the European version, in particular to the suspension. So what we will be getting is a different car, so we will see differrent tests in the USA and elsewhere. (for the leaf spring fanatics, they mentioned something else I didn't know, the C5R's have coil springs all around )

[Coventrysucks]

the C5R's have coil springs all around

As will the C6R and Z06.

So why have GM gone to the trouble nd expense of developing two completely different suspension systems for the same car...

Surely if leafs were as good as everyone tries to make out, they'd be good enough to use on the high performance versions?

[Slicks]

Like...every time you break down what everybody says. Now, in general, I start out agreeing with you, but then you take it to a degree that's really soporific. I'd take a Viper probably over any other modern-day 2-seater, and Corvette ranks a hearty second, with a 911 third. But trying to convince everyone that the Vette or Viper are simply the best in the world and shouldn't be bagged on is not going to work.

Im not saying the Viper and the vette are the best at all. If anything im saying they are underrated. And im saying that the vette shouldnt be ragged on for things like leafsprings, becuase they work just fine, and you couldnt tell the difference. It would be different if they truly hindered the performance...
And The Viper shouldnt be ragged on for having bad ride quality. Its made to be a brute, its not supposed to ride "nice."
Its like ragging on a luxury car for having too smooth of a ride, its supposed it be like that!

[Slicks]

Evo just drove the C6 and mentioned the changes made for the European version, in particular to the suspension. So what we will be getting is a different car, so we will see differrent tests in the USA and elsewhere. (for the leaf spring fanatics, they mentioned something else I didn't know, the C5R's have coil springs all around )

C5R and C6R both have coils because thier easier to adjust than leafs...

[Slicks]

As will the C6R and Z06.

So why have GM gone to the trouble nd expense of developing two completely different suspension systems for the same car...

Surely if leafs were as good as everyone tries to make out, they'd be good enough to use on the high performance versions?

Where did you hear that he C6 Z06 is going to have coils?
The C6 Z06 and the C6R are two different cars. As is the C5 and the C5R. Yes they are based on the street cars, but they are still different. Both race cars have no street use in mind, and are pure, striped down race cars.
Like I said in the previous post above, the C5R and C6R (also previous race vettes) use coils because their much easier to adjust then leafs...

[Coventrysucks]

Where did you hear that he C6 Z06 is going to have coils?

Is it not? I'm no expert on these type of things due to a general disinterest in the matter.

[:Exige:]

We HAD a 300kw version called the GTS with the Callaway C4B in it, but they ended up sticking that on the specil build list when the GTO got 285kw and now that its got 297kw, theyve taken it off the market, but hey, whats 3kw when the engines got 20nm more than the C4B

you guys should be seeing it as the VXR edition pretty soon

Woah - thats crazy! Cant wait for the VXR .. ill have to persuade someone I know to buy it .. "Hiya mate, wanna swap your Jag XKR for a Vauxhall?" Im sure he'll like it when I force him to test it

[Luciferous]

Im not saying the Viper and the vette are the best at all. If anything im saying they are...ride "nice."
Its like ragging on a luxury car for having too smooth of a ride, its supposed it be like that!

You've just missed the point of what jcp123 meant. You keep going into minute details that aren't necessary, because then it makes everyone argue over little differences that, at the end of the day, don't mean squat. Just try not to turn every response into a soap box for the 'Vette or Viper.

[fpv_gtho]

Woah - thats crazy! Cant wait for the VXR .. ill have to persuade someone I know to buy it .. "Hiya mate, wanna swap your Jag XKR for a Vauxhall?" Im sure he'll like it when I force him to test it

I dont think it'd be much of an issue with the limited numbers you guys get, but some people would find it hard to buy a Monaro over a Jag considering things like the build quality, interior design etc. even fuel consumption. But as i said, maybe for you guys the excusitivity of owning a Monaro makes it all worth it

[Luciferous]

The price helps too.

I suppose in this thread that maybe some of us may have to admit that the best from America may not be entirely up to scratch with the best from Europe. Now I think that we can all agree on this. I'm not saying the best America has to offer is crap, I'm saying that the best Europe has to offer is usually better, IE More tech, better finish, more polished vehicle. This can be seen in the differences between the journalist's comparisons. So I reckon the problem may lie with the Journalists. So, are the Journalists in America more biased than those in Europe or anywhere else?

[crisis]

The price helps too.

I suppose in this thread that maybe some of us may have to admit that the best from America may not be entirely up to scratch with the best from Europe. Now I think that we can all agree on this. I'm not saying the best America has to offer is crap, I'm saying that the best Europe has to offer is usually better, IE More tech, better finish, more polished vehicle. This can be seen in the differences between the journalist's comparisons. So I reckon the problem may lie with the Journalists. So, are the Journalists in America more biased than those in Europe or anywhere else?

How then , did the sometimes maligned Holden product rate so highly.