Odd topic - Christians, Jews

[Luciferous]

Ok here we go, and since this is the miscellaneous thread lets have a miscellaneous argument, and also see how far we can get without being locked.

The Question:

Do some Jews feel a bit bad about the whole 'being responsible for killing Jesus thing?'

I know this is a sensitive topic for... lets see, pretty much anyone to with Christians or Jews, but this is a serious question, asked from an entirely objective viewpoint (I hope from my time here I can be granted at least that reputation). I just wonder about it sometimes, and the whole what do some of the Jewish members on UCP think about it? To be entirely honest, this is sparked out of curiosity, not malice or anything like that. This has been a subject of 2000 odd years and never brought to light.

Please remember in no way do I mean to be offensive.

[Rockefella]

Ok here we go, and since this is the miscellaneous thread lets have a miscellaneous argument, and also see how far we can get without being locked.

The Question:

Do some Jews feel a bit bad about the whole 'being responsible for killing Jesus thing?'

I know this is a sensitive topic for... lets see, pretty much anyone to with Christians or Jews, but this is a serious question, asked from an entirely objective viewpoint (I hope from my time here I can be granted at least that reputation). I just wonder about it sometimes, and the whole what do some of the Jewish members on UCP think about it? To be entirely honest, this is sparked out of curiosity, not malice or anything like that. This has been a subject of 2000 odd years and never brought to light.

Please remember in no way do I mean to be offensive.

My opinion: Jews feel that they are in no way responsible for the death of Jesus and take this topic very personally. For example, my friend Zach HATES Mel Gibson for making the Passion of the Christ and starting this hatred of the Jews and their role in killing Jesus Christ.

[blackcat77]

If you can find a Jew today who was a member of the Sandhedrin present at the time of Jesus' kangaroo court, then we can hold him personally responsible. Other than that, you can't blame someone for something if they weren't even alive at the time.

If you ask me, the whole "Christ killer" thing is nothing more than an excuse used by people who WANT to hate Jews.

[Luciferous]

I find the thing a little juvenile to think of Jews as being 'Christ-killers', but I was wondering what a Jewish person thinks when they see a statue of Christ on a cross.

[blackcat77]

Rockafella -- Jesus himself was a Jew as where the disciples. The authors of the bible may have said "the Jew" did this or that, but the readers back then knew that they meant certain Jews only, such as the Pharisees. They were corrupt and self-serving and saw Jesus as a threat to their own power and thet was why they targeted him. But the Pharisees are long gone and it simply makes no sense to blame an entire faith for the acts of a few of it's members over two millenia ago.

[blackcat77]

Luc -- they see it as the unjust death of a prophet, one of many such events.

[Luciferous]

My opinion: Jews feel that they are in no way responsible for the death of Jesus and take this topic very personally. For example, my friend Zach HATES Mel Gibson for making the Passion of the Christ and starting this hatred of the Jews and their role in killing Jesus Christ.

Lets get this thing straight shall we? Like it or not, the animosity between Jews and Christians is because Jews were responsible for having Christ killed. He proclaimed to be the King of the Jews and some people didn't believe him. It is entirely unfair to say "I don't like Jews because they killed Christ blah blah blah", but also unfair to say that "I'm insulted by this and you're a bigot by talking about the very subject." I mean, hey, people don't hate Italians for actually killing the guy.

I'm not saying thats what your doing but its a reaction I've had, so the point of this discussion is to try as hard as possible NOT to take it personally.

[CdocZ]

Lets get this thing straight shall we? Like it or not, the animosity between Jews and Christians is because Jews were responsible for having Christ killed. He proclaimed to be the King of the Jews and some people didn't believe him. It is entirely unfair to say "I don't like Jews because they killed Christ blah blah blah", but also unfair to say that "I'm insulted by this and you're a bigot by talking about the very subject." I mean, hey, people don't hate Italians for actually killing the guy.

I'm not saying thats what your doing but its a reaction I've had, so the point of this discussion is to try as hard as possible NOT to take it personally.

We were given a choice by the Romans, to kill one of 2 guys named Jesus. One was Christ, who many Jews did not like. Jesus Christ went around basically trying to be a smartass, questioning everything, but not really with much of a reason for his arguments. The other Jesus, was a very learned Rabbi and scholar. Is it really hard to guess which one we will give up to the Romans if we have a choice? Rabbi/smartass, vs. learned Rabbi and scholar.......hmmmmm........sorry Christ, but you should have at least given more reasons to your arguments then "well, that's wrong because I am the son of God".

Also, to answer your question, do we feel bad about it? NO! We feel bad about how much the Christian religion was a complete ASS to us for a few thousand years. This entire question should be going the OTHER way, considering who was oppressed for the last 2-3 thousand years. Also, if we hadn't "gone out and killed Jesus", how would he have died for your sins? If we had not chosen the other non-Christ Jesus to live, Christianity will probably have never really formed. So you should be thanking us, not questioning whether we feel bad that we started Christianity off basically, and that we will NOT pray to a second God, as Jesus is.

EDIT: If it sounds like I am attacking you, I am not. I am giving my opinion and some background information. If you want it to be an attack on you, go ahead, but that is not how I meant it.

[CdocZ]

I find the thing a little juvenile to think of Jews as being 'Christ-killers', but I was wondering what a Jewish person thinks when they see a statue of Christ on a cross.

We think Christians should stop praying to a "second God", as it is WAY past the line, that the Torah (which was what the Christian Bible pretty much is) sets.

Just on this fact alone you have 2 seperate religions. Christianity is like the "odd duck of the pile" because of this when you look at Islam and Judaism. Why? For example, the prayer that Jews customarily say just before they die "Shemah Yisrael, Adonai Elokainu, Adonai Echad" literally translates (no fance poetry in this line), into "Hear us God of Israel, We praise God, God is one". This prayer was taken from verses of the Torah, which should have been used by the Christians too.

What's really irratating to us Jews however, is the "Jews for Jesus". Two reasons. A) They break just about every law in the Torah. B) They add "blessed is Jesus son of God" into every prayer. Back to point A, they eat pork, which the Torah forbids, and Jesus was VERY against, even though he was not the greatest of Rabbi's, he was amazingly religious. Jesus had Shabbat on Friday/Saturday, another little......mistake. The list goes on and on, I doubt anyone even was ever able to complie a full list.

Islam on the other hand, is very close to Judaism. Until they gave up their priority of learning, they were A) very close to Judaism, that they could have been considered a 3rd cousin pretty much, and B) The Koran has the same laws as the Torah.

[SilverG35SportC]

Jesus was Jewish, Jews didnt kill Jesus, the Romans killed Jesus.

[QuattroMan]

Ok here we go, and since this is the miscellaneous thread lets have a miscellaneous argument, and also see how far we can get without being locked.

The Question:

Do some Jews feel a bit bad about the whole 'being responsible for killing Jesus thing?'

befor we do go on which one are you Jewish or christian?

[QuattroMan]

EDIT: If it sounds like I am attacking you, I am not. I am giving my opinion and some background information. If you want it to be an attack on you, go ahead, but that is not how I meant it.

"Christianity off basically, and that we will NOT pray to a second God, as Jesus is." all this time i thought Jesus was god's son!!!!

[Rockefella]

Lets get this thing straight shall we? Like it or not, the animosity between Jews and Christians is because Jews were responsible for having Christ killed. He proclaimed to be the King of the Jews and some people didn't believe him. It is entirely unfair to say "I don't like Jews because they killed Christ blah blah blah", but also unfair to say that "I'm insulted by this and you're a bigot by talking about the very subject." I mean, hey, people don't hate Italians for actually killing the guy.

I'm not saying thats what your doing but its a reaction I've had, so the point of this discussion is to try as hard as possible NOT to take it personally.

I'm not, I was expressing the opinion of my Jewish friend. When asked about it, that's the answer he and many other Jewish people I know give. I don't care too much about the subject because Jesus died in somebody's hands and to me it doesn't matter by whom but it happened.

[Luciferous]

befor we do go on which one are you Jewish or christian?

A proud heretic Christian, hence my curiosity of Jewish POV's

[my porsche]

i thought the romans killed jesus, is this some sort of conspiratorical theory?