Clarkson explains some differences between the USA and Europe

[early93viper]

aha the pitfall of a capitalist -- measure "richness" by monetary value

Where is it that I said Monatary value? NAME A communist country that is rich.

You also make the mistake of atributing the label "communist" to groups wich arent'. THAT is a consequence of the American political education system Learn more about the variety adn the aspoirations of communism before we proceed any further please. AND let's take it to another thread. You're free to create it
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No, this thread. Teach me, show me how communism has worked.

AND I see you've taken the "line" on communism. Two great leaders were travelling to Paris after WW1. They both went by train. ONe in first class, the other in third. The one in thrid complained to the other for takign first and that it was betrayign communism. "no, comrade, you misunderstand communism. We ALL get to travel first class!"

It's NOT about dragging down, it's about buidling up.
But ends up corrupted.
Just look at the stock markets around the world. These were MEANT to provide a source of capital for people with ideas to manage to produce them. NOW it is a means of making paper money for the few able to play it effectively. The rich and well supported can make millions -- millions made from those who are less knowledgable and supported by brokers etc.
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Let me help you. The reason why communism doesn't work is very simple. People will work harder for themselves than they will any one else. The thought of getting ahead in life gets people starting buisnesses, inventing products, and just generaly working harder.

Would you work as hard if you got paid the same no matter what happened? If you answer that honestly you would have the answer to why communism doesn't work

Have you studied the history of world economics ? It is very interesting and especially how the various systems have swayed from their objectives and in their own way succeeded and failed/

I have studied economics a lot. But it doesn't take an economics major to see what has worked and what has failed so many times.

[scottie300z]

Let me help you. The reason why communism doesn't work is very simple. People will work harder for themselves than they will any one else. The thought of getting ahead in life gets people starting buisnesses, inventing products, and just generaly working harder.

Would you work as hard if you got paid the same no matter what happened? If you answer that honestly you would have the answer to why communism doesn't work

Thats why it wouldnt work in already rich or moderately rich countries (as it would be a pay cut to alot of people). But if communism got it start in poorer countries, (maybe an example is some african or asia countrys) then people would be getting paid more b/c of it and have a better life. and then as the country's economy got better and richer they would get paid more accordingly. That would be the motivation to work harder. Its like when company's give stock to employees, the more positive impact they have (the harder they work) the more they get paid. Comunisim is like having stock in your country.

And as far as US and the cold war and WWIII. Show me how WWWIII would have happened w/o the US, or russia would have taken control of europe. I think its a little much suggesting that they could have taken major countries or really countries west of the berlin wall. So basicaly they would have gotton exactly what they did get. Wasnt the cold war more of a tecnology/arms race then anything else? instead of making sure the russians dont take over europe. From what ive read in history books and everything the US didnt do much to prevent the russians from taking over countries other than in asia. russia was given control of a number of european country's right after WWII was settled.

[nota]

The USSR (and others) wanted to make the world communists and the United States (and others) wanted the world to be free.

Many struggle over how we get rampant capitalism away from it's extremes in todays world too

Thank you Matra for expressing a contra. Indeed there are many people on this globe who apparently rate only as second-tier world citizens (eg 'non americans') but wish to instead be allowed their own version of freedom. By golly this might encompass freedom FROM an American-mandated compulsary world-subservience to US capitalism, imperialism & domination

But the US obviously knows what's best for us mere aliens/foreigners so I guess for ALL of us to revel in Freedom-USA we must first kneel down before our McSuperiors

[early93viper]

Thats why it wouldnt work in already rich or moderately rich countries (as it would be a pay cut to alot of people). But if communism got it start in poorer countries, (maybe an example is some african or asia countrys) then people would be getting paid more b/c of it and have a better life. and then as the country's economy got better and richer they would get paid more accordingly. That would be the motivation to work harder. Its like when company's give stock to employees, the more positive impact they have (the harder they work) the more they get paid. Comunisim is like having stock in your country.
.

No commusnism is not like having stock in your country. Communism is basicly when the goverment controls everything.
By defenition:
Communism:
a totalitarian system of government in which a single authoritarian party controls state-owned means of production with the professed aim of establishing a stateless society

And as far as US and the cold war and WWIII. Show me how WWWIII would have happened w/o the US, or russia would have taken control of europe. I think its a little much suggesting that they could have taken major countries or really countries west of the berlin wall. So basicaly they would have gotton exactly what they did get. Wasnt the cold war more of a tecnology/arms race then anything else? instead of making sure the russians dont take over europe. From what ive read in history books and everything the US didnt do much to prevent the russians from taking over countries other than in asia. russia was given control of a number of european country's right after WWII was settled.

Um no. The US did a lot to prevent them taking over contries everywhere. What country exactly are you refering to?

[scottie300z]

Thank you Matra for expressing a contra. Indeed there are many people on this globe who apparently rate only as second-tier world citizens (eg 'non americans') but wish to instead be allowed their own version of freedom. By golly this might encompass freedom FROM an American-mandated compulsary world-subservience to US capitalism, imperialism & domination

But the US obviously knows what's best for us mere aliens/foreigners so I guess for ALL of us to revel in Freedom-USA we must first kneel down before our McSuperiors

ha, thats so true. But as far as the amrican business goes (mcdonalds) they wouldnt be in foreign country's if those foreign country's did not want them there. (make them profitable) you dont shop there, they dont exist. But i agree w/ everything else.

[early93viper]

Thank you Matra for expressing a contra. Indeed there are many people on this globe who apparently rate only as second-tier world citizens (eg 'non americans') but wish to instead be allowed their own version of freedom. By golly this might encompass freedom FROM an American-mandated compulsary world-subservience to US capitalism, imperialism & domination

But the US obviously knows what's best for us mere aliens/foreigners so I guess for ALL of us to revel in Freedom-USA we must first kneel down before our McSuperiors

Oh the drama

How has the US treated the rest of the globe as second-tier citizens?

The US has protected weaker countries and people countless times. Not saying they have never made a mistake. But find a country who has protected people more. Please.

[scottie300z]

No commusnism is not like having stock in your country. Communism is basicly when the goverment controls everything.
By defenition:
Communism:
a totalitarian system of government in which a single authoritarian party controls state-owned means of production with the professed aim of establishing a stateless society

How is that different? The better the country does b/c of the work of its workers, the more they get paid. The better a company does b/c of the work of its worker the more their stock is worth and therefore the more they get paid. the incentives are the same, which was the basis of the comparison.

And from what ive been told, wasnt the government's control theoretically supposed to weaken as time went on? And id like to note that just b/c something hasnt worked doesn't mean it cant. There are many different circumstances that cause a result to happen. Just b/c america is working so well, doesnt mean the same system will work everywhere. There are many things that caused america to be what it is today. At its beginning there were many other things going in its favor that cant always be said for other countrys.

Um no. The US did a lot to prevent them taking over contries everywhere. What country exactly are you refering to

Any european country, isnt it true that after WWII when the country's were discussing how to shape post war europe Russia was infact given the majority of europe? therefore nobody, not even the US opposed russia occupying european countrys? other then those country's later on when they revolted. But didnt the majority if not all of US's concern w/ stopping the spread of communism occur in asia and not in europe?

[Zytek_Fan]

What about Bush's gay tax returns that are only making the rich richer

[early93viper]

How is that different? The better the country does b/c of the work of its workers, the more they get paid. The better a company does b/c of the work of its worker the more their stock is worth and therefore the more they get paid. the incentives are the same, which was the basis of the comparison.

And from what ive been told, wasnt the government's control theoretically supposed to weaken as time went on? And id like to note that just b/c something hasnt worked doesn't mean it cant. There are many different circumstances that cause a result to happen. Just b/c america is working so well, doesnt mean the same system will work everywhere. There are many things that caused america to be what it is today. At its beginning there were many other things going in its favor that cant always be said for other countrys.

Theroies and making it work are two different things. Communism has just failed so many times. But anything can happen. Hell monkey's could fly out of my butt.

Any european country, isnt it true that after WWII when the country's were discussing how to shape post war europe Russia was infact given the majority of europe? therefore nobody, not even the US opposed russia occupying european countrys? other then those country's later on when they revolted. But didnt the majority if not all of US's concern w/ stopping the spread of communism occur in asia and not in europe?

See you have to say a country as I am not sure any where ever threatened. How can you defend a country not threatened?

If you mean Germeny heres what happened:

Germany is temporarily divided into 4 zones. Germany’s capital Berlin divided too. After a democratic government was installed the America, England and France reunited their sectors. Stalin refused to reunite his section, fearing a strong united Germany and wanting to retain control. This creates two Germanies; a democratic West Germany and communist dictatorship East Germany.

[scottie300z]

What about Bush's gay tax returns that are only making the rich richer

that might deserve another thread, as this one may have gone a bit off topic but is somewhat still related to the main topic.

I dont know the exact numbers, if they got more percent back or what but even if everyone in the country got a 10% tax return, the rich would get more money b/c they pay more tax. but the tax return was still equal.

[early93viper]

What about Bush's gay tax returns that are only making the rich richer

Bush's tax returns are heterosexual I assure you.

Under the President’s tax relief plan, the typical American family of four will be able to keep at least $1,600 more of their own money. It doubles the child tax credit to $1,000 per child. Reduces the marrige tax. And It also expands the charitable deductions.

How does that only make the rich richer?

[Zytek_Fan]

The richest people are getting the most money back, such as Bill Gates. And yes I do understand that many people get money back such as married people and people with children.

[scottie300z]

theroies and making it work are two different things. Communism has just failed so many times. But anything can happen. Hell monkey's could fly out of my butt.

So communism isnt necessarily a bad thing then, cause you agree it could work. Just b/c so far the poor have been communism doesnt mean it cant work out or is bad.

See you have to say a country as I am not sure any where ever threatened. How can you defend a country not threatened?

If you mean Germeny heres what happened:

Germany is temporarily divided into 4 zones. Germany’s capital Berlin divided too. After a democratic government was installed the America, England and France reunited their sectors. Stalin refused to reunite his section, fearing a strong united Germany and wanting to retain control. This creates two Germanies; a democratic West Germany and communist dictatorship East Germany.

Not threatened? didnt earlier you say that if it wasn't for the US that the USSR would control Europe? so if they didnt threaten europe, the USSR wouldnt ever control europe, and therefore back to my point that the US did not prevent the USSR from controling europe.

And there are actual countries in europe, see chzeckoslovokia or however you spell it. Where was the US then? It seems to me that besides berlin the US sort of moved on from europe.

[Zytek_Fan]

I would like to say that Bush has really ****ed up a lot of America's economy. He has benefited from gasoline price gouging because his family is in the oil industry

[scottie300z]

Oh the drama

How has the US treated the rest of the globe as second-tier citizens?

The US has protected weaker countries and people countless times. Not saying they have never made a mistake. But find a country who has protected people more. Please.

You could say that the fact that they feel they have to be the police treats the rest of the globe as second-tier citizens. I wouldnt say the US protects just to help those needing help. If that were true then wouldnt the people who need the help most would recieve it? And then wouldnt the people of Africa of it alot better off?