Zonda F vs CGT vs Enzo vs CCR

[250 GTO]

I'd take the Porsche Carrera GT.

[Birdman]

CCR. Love its looks and sound.
Second would be the Porsche. Third the Zonda F.

The Ferrari was never in it.

[Merrill]

CCR…love the looks and the way it starts up.
Zonda F second.
Enzo third
Porsche last/

[2ndclasscitizen]

3 letters: CCR

[furious_fiero]

What I dont like about companies that make supercars is that they come out with their initial model...then if its too slow/cant compete then they just upgrade it and re-release it again. I like the Enzo and CGT because they are pure and not some upgraded model. What if Ferrari re-released the Enzo with twin turbos on it...then the original Enzos wouldnt be as sought after and just forgotten. Supercar makers need to learn how to get it right the first time, then just end it at that.

How bout you redo this poll....

Enzo
ORIGINAL Zonda
Carrera GT
ORIGINAL Koenigsegg CC

Im thinking there would be more votes for the Enzo and CGT.

[silverhawk]

ive seen all 4 cars and so its the CCR for me.

[MrKipling]

Gotta be the Zonda F. With the same interior as the one that's been doing the press rounds, but in Brookmans Racing Green.

[Coventrysucks]

For me a truly great car comes from a company that produces its own engines.

You're not a fan of the McLaren F1 then.

Or any American "supercar" manufacturer either.

What if Ferrari re-released the Enzo with twin turbos on it...

Ferrari FXX?

You don't think that the Enzo and CGt went through a lot of revisions and improvements during development?

Pagani and Koenigsegg don't have they financial backing of a large manufacturer to fund an exhaustive development programme, therefore they are more likely to find room for improvement as time goes by, and customers suggest improvements.

[furious_fiero]

Ferrari FXX?

You don't think that the Enzo and CGt went through a lot of revisions and improvements during development?

Pagani and Koenigsegg don't have they financial backing of a large manufacturer to fund an exhaustive development programme, therefore they are more likely to find room for improvement as time goes by, and customers suggest improvements.

The Ferrari FXX is not being released for the street. It is strictly made for fun race day events. Pagani and Koenigsegg should have just waited and gone through all their developements before releasing their cars. Get right the first time or go home.

[GT F1]

The CCR.

[PerfAdv]

You're not a fan of the McLaren F1 then.

Or any American "supercar" manufacturer either.

That is correct. Although the McLaren F1 is a fantastic car the fact that it uses a BMW V12 takes away from its overall status for me. If anything, McLaren's use of a Honda powerplant would atleast represent their F1 collaboration.

The only American supercar I can think of is the Mercedes powered Chrysler ME412 (or something). This car is a Mercedes as far as I'm concerned. It's still only a concept though.

[Coventrysucks]

the fact that it uses a BMW V12 takes away from its overall status for me. If anything, McLaren's use of a Honda powerplant would atleast represent their F1 collaboration.

Yeah, the fact that BMW were the only company willing to develop a completely new, unique engine to McLaren's output, size and weight targets really takes alot away from it.

Pagani and Koenigsegg should have just waited and gone through all their developements before releasing their cars.

Wow. Don't ever go into business will you.

How would they have funded the development if they weren't actually selling cars?

How would they know what areas of the car customers would like refined/developed if no one but a couple of Pagani/Koenigsegg test drivers could use the car?

I don't see how the Enzo or CGT is "right first time" either.

Both have come in for their share of criticisms, the Enzo for its lack of driver involvement, and the CGT for its clutch.

Meanwhile the reviews of the Koenigsegg and Pagani got little else but praised when they first came out.

The Zonda C12, reviewed by Evo in 1999;
"There's very little to fault in the Zonda. It melds traditional supercar machismo with New Age smoothness and sophistication... ...it feels just as quick [as a Lamborghini Diablo], sounds equally thunderous, has comfort levels to rival a big Merc saloon and the quality of a Patek Phillipe watch..."

"The supercar Establishment should be very worried indeed"

Yeah, sounds like they weren't even close to having the perfect car there.

["Clevor" Angel]

You're not a fan of the McLaren F1 then.

Or any American "supercar" manufacturer either.

So the tuned dodge vipers, Ford GT, saleen S7, shelby cobras, and the ME412 don't count as supercars?

[PerfAdv]

Yeah, the fact that BMW were the only company willing to develop a completely new, unique engine to McLaren's output, size and weight targets really takes alot away from it.

Let me better explain myself. It's a matter of perspective. If you were to look at a vehicle at a moment in time and at that moment it is the quickest accelerating, has the highest top speed, and best braking performance of comparable models. It to me is the best performing car but not necessarily my favorite or 'best' car. For me a long term image that's established after decades of success matter more.

The McLaren F1 to me is the best-of-the-best Kit cars. McLaren used their extraordinary racing know-how to source out and build a car that more than a decade later is still a contender. Isn't that enough. However, Where's it's lineage? I know we aren't talking about royal blood here but what came before it and what succeeded it? It was a fabulous run of about a 100 cars and that's all. I like the McF1 but it isn't amongst my favorites.

Whereas, BMW inline 6s have been evolving for decades. The 911 is the same way. And the SLs have the Gullwing SL and the racing Silver Arrows to draw upon. So, until GE or some other conglomerate buys up the car companies and 911s are powered by 300 KW electric motors that also power draw bridges across the Mekong, I'll base my choice on what a company puts into the heart of its cars, its engine.

[Coventrysucks]

However, Where's it's lineage? I know we aren't talking about royal blood here but what came before it and what succeeded it? It was a fabulous run of about a 100 cars and that's all.

Every car manufacturer has to start somewhere.

The world would be worse off if everyone thought otherwise.

Henry Ford didn't sit there and say: "Herr Benz has been building cars years longer than me, so I won't bother because I don't have lineage!"

When Ferdinand Porsche started out he built an upturned bathtub with a VW Beetle engine in it. No "heritage" there.

I'll base my choice on what a company puts into the heart of its cars, its engine.

McLaren didn't build their engine. They didn't actually build the shock-absorbers, the disc brakes, the gearbox, the stereo, the steering wheel or the majority of components either - but which car manufactuer does?

I'd bet that all the other supercar manufacturers are just assembling a bunch of engine components made by specialist engineering firms anyway.

Did Ferrari manufacture 5000 pistons for the Enzos, and 32,000 pistons each year for 360s??

Do Porsche make hundereds of thousands of valve springs themselves?

When you build a car you are assembling a number of components, some are very generic; such as screws, bolts and washers, others are specifically designed for the car; such as body panels, interior trim.

Does it matter who actually builds & assembles the components, so long as the end result is a good car?

So the tuned dodge vipers, Ford GT, saleen S7, shelby cobras, and the ME412 don't count as supercars?

Well, apparently having the engine from an SUV that is produced by the same company as the "heart" of your supercar is better than a purpose built one from some else.

Saleen and Shelby don't build their own engines, and the one out of the ME412 is from AMG, so again, they are "kit cars" apparently.

As are all Aston Martins, Rolls Royces and Bentleys, beccause other companies make their engines as well.