Fuel of the Future

[P4g4nite]

Electricity.

I think we have to get used to the fact that simply finding something else to burn is not the way forward.

Sufficient energy can be produced without polluting, IE solar, wind, geothermal etc. but major lifestyle changes must come with it, it's seriously time to realise that we cannot continue to consume resources like this for much longer, irrespective of the fact we have enough coal for centuries and ways to produce oil for futher decades.

Eventually the other 5 billion( possibly 8-9 billion by that time) people who aren't as "developed" as the west will catch up.
Then what?

[Cedric]

Those poorly developed countries may not catch up as quickly as you think. China however, is seriously catching up and their are burning fuel at a tremendous pace.
Anyway, a lifestyle change will not be easy to spark off; genuine car aficionados won't be following the ecomentalist lead. As I already said, renewable sources should live symbiotically with the fossile fuels, which ought to remain available for those who crave it. But as it will get ever more scarce, prices will skyrocket, and even today's prices will be no match for what may come.

[henk4]

Those poorly developed countries may not catch up as quickly as you think. China however, is seriously catching up and their are burning fuel at a tremendous pace.

Before you say that again about China, check what the pace is of the US oil consumption...... Of course now that China is incresing its consumption prices go up, but instead of blaming the Chinese, the Americans could better have a look at themselves, for instance in terms of units of energy consumed per capita.

[P4g4nite]

Those poorly developed countries may not catch up as quickly as you think.

The later they catch up, the larger they will be unless a resource war begins.

Anyway, a lifestyle change will not be easy to spark off; genuine car aficionados won't be following the ecomentalist lead.

Environmentalist.
They won't be given a choice in the end.

But the selfishness of the few cannot be underestimated, look at smokers.

Besides, an electric car can still be a performance vehicle.

As I already said, renewable sources should live symbiotically with the fossile fuels, which ought to remain available for those who crave it.

I don't see why it ought to, not when there is an alternative for transport. It's like being forced to eat endangered whales because there is nothing else versus eating it for the enjoyment.

[P4g4nite]

but instead of blaming the Chinese, the Americans could better have a look at themselves, for instance in terms of units of energy consumed per capita.

He is blaming the Americans (or, all developed nations gorging on resources), because they 'set the bar' for other nations to reach for.
China simply wants to be like us ..err except when it comes to voting.

[henk4]

He is blaming the Americans (or, all developed nations gorging on resources), because they 'set the bar' for other nations to reach for.
China simply wants to be like us ..err except when it comes to voting.

Well, in the western press, rising oil prices were partly attributed (or blamed if you watched Fox news) to the increasing demand of the Chinese, and much to the benefit of the western oil companies of course

[Cedric]

Environmentalist.
They won't be given a choice in the end.

But the selfishness of the few cannot be underestimated, look at smokers.

Besides, an electric car can still be a performance vehicle.

I don't see why it ought to, not when there is an alternative for transport. It's like being forced to eat endangered whales because there is nothing else versus eating it for the enjoyment.

Ecomentalist is a word I invented, it's a weaker version of environmentalist.
This isn't about selfishness at all. It's about continuing to do something you enjoy.
And yes, electrical cars can even outperform internal combustion engined cars, but it doesn't have the same glamour though. I could never get the same satisfaction driving a swishing electro-car, where's the noise, the double declutching, the gearchanging. that can only be achieved by means of internal combustions engines, that's a fact you cannot deny.

In addition, your whale comparison doesn't make sense at all!

[P4g4nite]

Ecomentalist is a word I invented, it's a weaker version of environmentalist.

Ah ok, how much weaker exactly, what are their aims?

This isn't about selfishness at all. It's about continuing to do something you enjoy.

Then it is about selfishness.
You are doing something you don't have to do that spites others, or are there still people that think exhaust is harmless?

And yes, electrical cars can even outperform internal combustion engined cars, but it doesn't have the same glamour though. I could never get the same satisfaction driving a swishing electro-car, where's the noise, the double declutching, the gearchanging. that can only be achieved by means of internal combustions engines, that's a fact you cannot deny.

I cannot deny it's something you no doubt enjoy, but I can deny it's something you need to be doing.
Maybe you should get yourself a copy of Gran Turismo.

In addition, your whale comparison doesn't make sense at all!

I disagree, it was a fairly extrovert analogy.
Combustion vehicles pollute, if you don't need to drive one and htere is a viable alternative then driving one for the enjoyment is plainly selfish and shows disregard for the wellbeing of everyone affected and disrespect also.

I mean, what if I your neighbour sees your example and thinks, Gee, I want to have some radioactive material in my house, I don't need it but I'd like it.

[Cedric]

This isn't about selfishness at all, people have been driving internal combustion engines for over 100 years. It's selfish to baulk other people's passions. I can imagine that if you lived in a terribly congested city (like I do) exhaust gases can be harmful. They won't be harmful if a limited number of people kept using them. In addition, it wouldn't spite other people. Maybe it'd spite you, because you clearly don't understand what I am so passionate about, I am even starting to wonder what you are doing on UCP.
Moreover, a copy of GT wouldn't satisfy my needs, sports cars are totally addictive and one of the most glorious entertainment devices ever to be invented.
And I'll tell you even more, it's not that I'm averse to alternatives, I wouldn't mind driving an electrical vehicle for daily transport, but an internal combustion engined sports car (whether it runs on petrol or ethanol) is good riddance, it's sheer driving fun.
Your radioactive material comparison doesn't make sense either, since it can kill whoever is in contact with the material. That's why they toyed with the idea of buidling radioactive cars in the 50s, but never realised them. It'd have killed people instantly. If you're going the hair-splitting way, I'd suggest the following: perhaps we should get both extremely rich, each of us buys himself a country, in your country cars are banned, in mine people could enjoy them to the full. Or maybe we ought to construct a time-machine, so that I could go to the 1950s and have some fun on the Bonneville salt flats or whatever, and you could travel in time to the 22nd century.

[AstonMartinV12]

I love perpetual motion machine slip ups

They ARE far-fetched and they are NOT plausible/possible.

thats where your wrong air powered cars have already been made

maybe not mass produced but still it has been invented

www.theaircar.com

[Matra et Alpine]

thats where your wrong air powered cars have already been made

maybe not mass produced but still it has been invented

www.theaircar.com

DOnt' get too confused by the name

These use stored compressed air to drive pistons.
NOT perpetual motion as the energy is provided in the compressed air.

Dreaming that you can move a vehicle and by it's movement create energy to keep it moving - nope

[derekthetree]

DOnt' get too confused by the name

These use stored compressed air to drive pistons.
NOT perpetual motion as the energy is provided in the compressed air.

Dreaming that you can move a vehicle and by it's movement create energy to keep it moving - nope

all our probelms would be solved if we only had to ever travel downhill. then no engines needed at all just gravity

[Matra et Alpine]

all our probelms would be solved if we only had to ever travel downhill. then no engines needed at all just gravity

Or gas-powered and endless supply of Vindaloos

[P4g4nite]

This isn't about selfishness at all, people have been driving internal combustion engines for over 100 years.

An irrelevent appeal to tradition, we are atlking about a furture in which a perfectly viable alternative is available.
Besides that, bear baiting could equally be defended with your example.

It's selfish to baulk other people's passions.

It's selfish to think of the greater good for everyone? Are you high?

I can imagine that if you lived in a terribly congested city (like I do) exhaust gases can be harmful.

Only if you are unfortunate enough to breathe the air.

They won't be harmful if a limited number of people kept using them.

Wrong, it will only be less harmful.
Why is it fair that everyone else should have to pick up the slack so that you and other combustion enthusiasts can do what you like?

Maybe it'd spite you, because you clearly don't understand what I am so passionate about

Save your sob story sweetheart, I'm not here to get in touch with your feelings.

I am even starting to wonder what you are doing on UCP

Sorry, is the oil burning enthusiasts online or something?
No, it's car forums. A car is more than a wheeled box that burns oil product, Cedric.

And I'll tell you even more, it's not that I'm averse to alternatives, I wouldn't mind driving an electrical vehicle for daily transport, but an internal combustion engined sports car (whether it runs on petrol or ethanol) is good riddance, it's sheer driving fun.

Then you very clearly are against the alternative, you are against getting your fix from virtual cars or from electric cars, you have said that you must have an oil burner.

Your radioactive material comparison doesn't make sense either, since it can kill whoever is in contact with the material.

Oh no, it's only a small amount you'd have to be around it a lot. Like carbon monoxide from your exhaust.

perhaps we should get both extremely rich, each of us buys himself a country, in your country cars are banned, in mine people could enjoy them to the full.

Will your country be encased in a biodome? Or will my country have to offset the pollution yours causes?

so that I could go to the 1950s and have some fun on the Bonneville salt flats or whatever, and you could travel in time to the 22nd century

Or maybe I could go to a period where I'm not cleaning the mess you left.
I'm not your ***damn maid.

Both these examples(seperate countries, time travel) serve to illustrate my point about how people need to realise that we simply cannot keep doing what we are doing and expect everything to be ok.
I hate to preach (especially being atheistic, it's just ironic) but Jeez Cedric, didn't your parents ever teach you about responsibility?

*I sincerely apologise if you have no parents.

[Cedric]

I am not against electrical cars, although I would like to see the survival of some cars with internal combustion engines. If they are limited in number they will NOT be harmful! I am not telling a sob story here, cars are about passion for some, I am very sorry, perhaps we'd all be better off if Karl Benz and Gottlieb Daimler had never introduced them at all!
In addition, if gases are so harmful, how come all those racing drivers of the 50s and 60s, the lucky ones that weren't killed, have lived well into their 80s or 90s? they weren't killed because of being exposed to the wakes of cars that blackened your face.
And don't talk to me about responsibility: I recycle, I never throw trash on the street or on nature, I use public transport, and I don't drive an SUV.
Instead of blaming car aficionados, start looking at America, they consume twice the energy of the average European. And although people have economical cars at their disposal nowadays, they just keep buying ever more SUV's. And don't get me started about all those forest fires (which are so much more harmful to the environment than a bunch of sports cars with internal combustion engines), and what about the countries that don't give a damn about environmental issues, ... There's lots of work for you to do, and you'd better begin telling them off rather than people who mean well, and who enjoy cars just for the fun of it, the looks of it, the sound and yes, maybe the smell even.