Factory Five Racing GTM

[PBB]

PBB, you aren't "fabricating" anything with kits of this quality.
Theyve' done all that, you only assemble ( and disassemble an appropriate donor )

That's what it sounds like, but there is still a lot of customizing and there are still so many unresolved quality issues.

[Matra et Alpine]

That's what it sounds like, but there is still a lot of customizing and there are still so many unresolved quality issues.

Reading their site, they are WELL beyond the level of skill needed in many British kits where there can be LOTS of raw fabrication necessary.

Assembly drilling a few holes and a bit of panel beating or glass lay-up isn't anything to be afraid of. You are NOT asked to do anything on construction of critical components anymore - the original LoCost you welded up the suspension arms from raw tubing yourself

[Matra et Alpine]

I'm trying to find out who penned the body, the discussion began with visual design not chassis/engineering.

This is getting far too tedious.

Go look up Broadley PLEASE

Here's the Mk6 which is what attracted Ford to come talk to the man.
Note the similarities !!! g'night

EDIT: ha a quick google and someone showed the Lola GT !!! This was the car presented at motor show which got Iacoca fired up ..... see http://www.atspeedimages.com/montere..._prototype.jpg

[Dino Scuderia]

This is getting far too tedious.

Go look up Broadley PLEASE


Here's the Mk6 which is what attracted Ford to come talk to the man.
Note the similarities !!! g'night

EDIT: ha a quick google and someone showed the Lola GT !!! This was the car presented at motor show which got Iacoca fired up ..... see http://www.atspeedimages.com/montere..._prototype.jpg

I understand all that...but I have yet to find the words, 'Broadley penned the body design'. Several references of he 'designed' the car but that can mean a lot of things. It would stand to reason that he did pen it, I would like to see something specific to that effect.

Excerpt:

A concept was roughed out, the styling was done in the USA, and then the design was transferred to the UK where Eric Broadley was retained as a design consultant, with Len Bailey head of chassis design. The GT40 was truly innovative in its time -, it was the first car in endurance sports car racing to have a monocoque body. It was made mainly from thin steel pressings, with a pair of wide sponsons each side of the cockpit providing much of the strength and containing the flexible fuel tanks.

The short answer appears to be that no one person can be credited, collaborative all the way.

http://www.fast-autos.com/fan/Ford_GT.html

[Matra et Alpine]

[quote=Dino Scuderia]I understand all that...but I have yet to find the words, 'Broadley penned the body design'. Several references of he 'designed' the car but that can mean a lot of things. It would stand to reason that he did pen it, I would like to see something specific to that effect.[qipte]
Possible, except IF you look at the design clues in the Mk6 and the Gt it's pretty obvious !!!

http://www.fast-autos.com/fan/Ford_GT.html

Personally FAR too glossy a coverage of the original GT40 in an article about the new.
Wyler worked with the team. A design centre was FORMED in the UK for the express purpose of DESIGN and manufacture. These are all fact and can be found in any reputabel Ford history book.

Here we go ....
" At a car show in England, an Englishman named Eric Broadley displayed a Ford powered body he called the Lola GT. The body was very aerodynamic, the roof was only 42" off the ground. The construction was very unique for a race car, it was a unibody. The car did not have a frame as other cars did. The body was one piece forming the frame of the car, thus the term uni-body was used.
Broadley signed a two-year contract with Ford. John Wyler, an Englishman, was named team manager. (Wyler was in charge of the Aston Martin team that Carroll Shelby had won the 1959 LeMans with.) Shelby was brought in to run the project PR, race the GT40's in the US and market the street version.
Broadley's design was put to wind tunnel tests at the University of Maryland. Ford engineers redesigned the body to fit the chassis dimensions. Air scoops were put in both sides (also found on the 1962 Mustang I Ford developed.) Originally the scoops were to duct air into side mounted radiators. Not enough air entered the scoops to make a difference for the radiators, so they were redesigned to cool the rear brakes."

SO the shape was penned by Broadley, enough ? You're starting to sound as if you're desperate to make the GT40 be American when nobody has claimed that for 40 years - until Ford America resurrected the GT name

[Dino Scuderia]

Ford engineers redesigned the body

Desperate? No, that's your little dream. I agree the shape was Broadley's but a lot of cars are shaped similar, there's much more to design than that. Ford engineers REDESIGNED the body to fit the chassis so many things could have changed from Broadley's design if he did pen it for Ford in it's original form.

[Matra et Alpine]

Desperate? No, that's your little dream. I agree the shape was Broadley's but a lot of cars are shaped similar, there's much more to design than that. Ford engineers REDESIGNED the body to fit the chassis so many things could have changed from Broadley's design if he did pen it for Ford in it's original form.

yeah fine, Dino.

Stick with the fantasy.

READ some books on the subject of the GT40 and NOT rely on Ford's and Ford fanboy revisionist history.

You've been led to the water, you won't drink. The saying works for horses and asses

I've given you TWO clear photographs of Broadleys work BEFORE FORD TOUCHED ANYTHING which clearly show who "penned" the body. You're switching tack, you said you hand't heard he had "penned it", now you're claiming it has to be the whoel design ? You claimed he was "consultant engineer", when clearly he was originator. Make your mind up ... or learn not to use "bait-and-switch" in discussions

[Dino Scuderia]

yeah fine, Dino.

Stick with the fantasy.

READ some books on the subject of the GT40 and NOT rely on Ford's and Ford fanboy revisionist history.

You've been led to the water, you won't drink. The saying works for horses and asses

I've given you TWO clear photographs of Broadleys work BEFORE FORD TOUCHED ANYTHING which clearly show who "penned" the body. You're switching tack, you said you hand't heard he had "penned it", now you're claiming it has to be the whoel design ? You claimed he was "consultant engineer", when clearly he was originator. Make your mind up ... or learn not to use "bait-and-switch" in discussions

Why should I drink the 'water' when there's no proof in it.

I'm not switching anything, I'm just learning along the way. For 40 years people on this side of the pond consider the car to be American and on your side it's considered to be British....it's completely fine with me that such a cool car can be shared by two countries.

'Consultant enginieer' is not my claim, that's how his involvement was referred to in one of the many articles I read on the subject....and that is what is confusing the issue. More than one source says the GT40 was designed in Dearborn Michigan by Ford then the final engineering was peformed in part by Eric etc. Nowhere is it 'clear' that he penned the visual design of the GT40 which is inspired by his Lola but is NOT a Lola.

You need to learn the difference between a debate and exploring information and try not to be so confrontational when there is no need. You may be a contestant again someday on 'Who Designed This Car'.

[Matra et Alpine]

Why should I drink the 'water' when there's no proof in it.

Does ignoring evidence given run hand in hand with "bait-and-switch" training ???

I'm not switching anything, I'm just learning along the way. For 40 years people on this side of the pond consider the car to be American and on your side it's considered to be British....it's completely fine with me that such a cool car can be shared by two countries.

erm, I dont' know of ANY Brit who claims the GT40 as British only !
Would be kind of stupid given the engine and the money
It's USUALLY in response to idiotic claims that it's an AMERICAN CAR that you get knowledgeable input pointing out the British influence.
That's an entirely different proposition

'Consultant enginieer' is not my claim, that's how his involvement was referred to in one of the many articles I read on the subject....and that is what is confusing the issue. More than one source says the GT40 was designed in Dearborn Michigan by Ford then the final engineering was peformed in part by Eric etc. Nowhere is it 'clear' that he penned the visual design of the GT40 which is inspired by his Lola but is NOT a Lola.

Well your sources are Ford/fanboy/US revisionist BS to try to hype the company/country
Sad people think they have to DO that !!
Find your "more than one source" and cite it please ?????
If as suggested you woudl read historical books on the car and the racing of the time it woudl be better than web sites and forums

You need to learn the difference between a debate and exploring information and try not to be so confrontational when there is no need. You may be a contestant again someday on 'Who Designed This Car'.

Nice one Go back and read the points being raised are factual and researched and not off the cuff citations Confrontational comes when you dont' READ and the other person has to point it out again and again ... and sadly AGAIN then , huhh sheez you wnet ON AND ON about Broadley being "consultant" !!!!!!

[Dino Scuderia]

Does ignoring evidence given run hand in hand with "bait-and-switch" training ???

erm, I dont' know of ANY Brit who claims the GT40 as British only !
Would be kind of stupid given the engine and the money
It's USUALLY in response to idiotic claims that it's an AMERICAN CAR that you get knowledgeable input pointing out the British influence.
That's an entirely different proposition

Well your sources are Ford/fanboy/US revisionist BS to try to hype the company/country
Sad people think they have to DO that !!
Find your "more than one source" and cite it please ?????
If as suggested you woudl read historical books on the car and the racing of the time it woudl be better than web sites and forums

Nice one Go back and read the points being raised are factual and researched and not off the cuff citations Confrontational comes when you dont' READ and the other person has to point it out again and again ... and sadly AGAIN then , huhh sheez you wnet ON AND ON about Broadley being "consultant" !!!!!!

All this and you've still proved nothing.

[Wouter Melissen]

The only American GT40s are the Mk IV and the current GT. All others were designed in England at Ford Advanced Vehicles, which was what Ford called Lola after they bankrolled in. Broadley left after Ford decided to compromise the design by executing the chassis in steel instead of aluminum. If it wasn't for the Americans, Ford might have won at Le Mans a year earlier. Most production cars were assembled by third parties like Alan Mann and John Wyer's JW Automotive.

[Dino Scuderia]

The only American GT40s are the Mk IV and the current GT. All others were designed in England at Ford Advanced Vehicles, which was what Ford called Lola after they bankrolled in. Broadley left after Ford decided to compromise the design by executing the chassis in steel instead of aluminum. If it wasn't for the Americans, Ford might have won at Le Mans a year earlier. Most production cars were assembled by third parties like Alan Mann and John Wyer's JW Automotive.

Agreed, but the exterior design as far as I can tell was penned in Dearborn by Ford.

[Matra et Alpine]

All this and you've still proved nothing.

ah well clearly as well as not managing to get asses to drink clearly we can't get blind people to read
Youve' been given the "evidence".
Glad to see you are fitting sterotypes

["Clevor" Angel]

Matra, you REALLY REALLY don't like americans or american cars do you?

[Matra et Alpine]

Matra, you REALLY REALLY don't like americans or american cars do you?

100% wrong

Go back and READ and not let rose-tinted glasses affect the information parted.

The original GT40 is a CLASSIC.
THe AC Cobra si a GOD.
Both wre mediocre cars with potential until American influence and input.

You confuse truth and bias perchance ????

The FACTS about the original GT40 are clear and well documented.