would german or american cars ever replace italian cars?

[kiwitt]

Answer: No

American = Brutish
British = Classic
German = Durable
Italian = Style
Japan = Techno

While the above is a generalisation, so there will be exceptions, but it was a general question wasn't it.

[crisis]

Answer: No

American = Brutish
British = Classic
German = Durable
Italian = Style
Japan = Techno

While the above is a generalisation, so there will be exceptions, but it was a general question wasn't it.

No. It was a pretty lame question actually. "Would German or American cars ever replace Italian cars?" One might assume it meant , will they ever surpass Italian exotic desirability? Taken literally though,it is quite nonsensical.

[Spastik_Roach]

Depends what factor you are thinking of really. Italian cars don't have the best reputation in the world for build-quality, but certainly out-do Japan in terms of design.

And BTW MikeMclarenF1, did you know Chris Bangle desgined the Fiat Coupe? Proof that putting Italian lines on German cars would just look weird.

[Falcon500]

The aussie hillman imp GT was a lot more flashy then that...think more likethe lotus cortina with its raceing stripes and flash wheels and so on...the engine also copped a few mods gaining twin carbies,exaust and cam work a very good car that never really took off...i had an oppurtunity to buy a hillman imp for $50...everyone saidit was over priced and wouldent suit the bush basher i wanted...

[fpv_gtho]

Answer: No

American = Brutish
British = Classic
German = Durable
Italian = Style
Japan = Techno

While the above is a generalisation, so there will be exceptions, but it was a general question wasn't it.

if this is your opinion, which im not trying to attack by the way, then how do you think Australian cars are thought of overseas? based off wheels euro tour of europe and the brief stop in the USA, the british liked the performance but had issues with the build quality, the germans thought it was alright but i think they said it had to much road noise, the italians i think said it rode too soft for a performance car and the french i think had minor issues with the styling but in general thought it was a good attempt

[fpv_gtho]

if this is your opinion, which im not trying to attack by the way, then how do you think Australian cars are thought of overseas? based off wheels euro tour of europe and the brief stop in the USA, the british liked the performance but had issues with the build quality, the germans thought it was alright but i think they said it had to much road noise, the italians i think said it rode too soft for a performance car and the french i think had minor issues with the styling but in general thought it was a good attempt

the americans of course couldnt believe something that good looking, that big and fast and with that quality was wearing the blue oval

[Homem de Gelo]

Sure.

Take away the badge and what is left of an Italian or German car?

[Matra et Alpine]

Take away the badge and what is left of an Italian or German car?

Styling and engineering.

Next ?????

Take the badge off an American car and you've got a huge hunk of steel and a soccor mom

Take it off a British Leyland car and you end up with a pile of rust - the badge would have been holding it together !!!!!!

[Homem de Gelo]

Styling and engineering.

Exactly, and styling and engineering have no nationality, colour or pride, unless you are a superfanatic car fan, which I'm not.

[Matra et Alpine]

Exactly, and styling and engineering have no nationality, colour or pride, unless you are a superfanatic car fan, which I'm not.

Sorry, but styling is definately to be given to Italian designers.
Look at what Ford has achieved with it's disasters.
What makes it funnier, is we see the abortion they make when modifying the concepts for the American markets.
Ford Fiesta and Escort were reasonable platforms and the US version were ugle, overweight and UNDER-engineered ( suspensino changes especially ).

Peugeot and Renault have set styling standards that others aspire to.

You could take the badges off Fiat, Alfa, Peugeot, Renault designs and tell the nationality.

Hmmm, think I see a competition idea. I'll get some pics and see fi folks can guess nationality.

I think this only works with 'mainstream' as many small designers copy ideas from the large design houses that a large manufacturer wouldnt' dare to do

ON engineering, I'd personally give it to the Japanese. But I'm biased by their motorbike output

[crisis]

Peugeot and Renault have set styling standards that others aspire to.

You could take the badges off Fiat, Alfa, Peugeot, Renault designs and tell the nationality.

Hmmm, think I see a competition idea. I'll get some pics and see fi folks can guess nationality.

I think this only works with 'mainstream' as many small designers copy ideas from the large design houses that a large manufacturer wouldnt' dare to do

ON engineering, I'd personally give it to the Japanese. But I'm biased by their motorbike output

You have my respect as far as motoring knowledge gos and you are entitled to your opinion. In my opinion Peugeot, Renault, Fiat have produced the most consistently hideous designs I have seen. They have peers, but I cant name a model from any of them that I like the look of. (Im sure someone could find one though. The French seem to go out of their way to design cars that are so distintive that they outsmart themselves and produce pigs. You are right about taking the badges off though. I could smell one coming a mile away.

[Matra et Alpine]

Peugeot, Renault, Fiat have produced the most consistently hideous designs I have seen. They have peers, but I cant name a model from any of them that I like the look of.

Well that begs the question which models have you seen ?
The Citroen DS was a definitive 60s luxury look. ( OK the BX was an ugly square box )
THe Peugeot 406 coupe. drool.
The hard-top convertables from Renault and Peugeot are v. nice ( for women )
Fiat Barchetta ( anothe woman's car tho' ) - Multipla - blech

The most likely cause of seeing them all as ugly is the strong memory the owrst of them leave. Multipla, BX, Espace IV all leave a 'bad' taste

The mistake most European companies made in trying to enter US , is I think they tried to make them LOOK acceptable for Americans and in that ruined them ( This befell the Alpine GTA and ended up looking ugly from the front )
So what you see is usually changed for what they think YOU want to see.

For Australia I get the perception that certainly the British manufacturesr dumped their worst selling models there to use up the steel and bits they'd manufactured

MGB were the worst example, by the time they increased the ride height and added hidous rubber bumbers to comply with US law the car was plain UGLY and handled like a pig. Most folks don't actually know how well a 'B can handle as they've only been exposed to those abominations.

[Falcon500]

Yeah well guess the nationality
Im fully with crisis on this one french cars in general are hidious...though i will admit i like some of them little fiats 125s mainly...tiny little bucket with a 1600 DOHC donk...the one i saw had dual webbers and a fair bit of other work on it moved very easily
But i still stand by the fact that most euro cars are either boring as bat shit or just plain ugly....

[fpv_gtho]

Im fully with crisis on this one french cars in general are hidious...

Well i guess you could say theres only 1 reason why Peugeot's get the nickname "Pug" then......

[Matra et Alpine]

Im fully with crisis on this one french cars in general are hidious...though i will admit i like some of them little fiats 125s mainly...

Well it STILL begs the question which models have you seen ?

And you'll start another European war if you call Fiat's French

Right now I think some French cars are going through an 'ugly front end' phase Especially Renault is trying to come up with a 'look' and it doesn't work on all models. The new Espace IS hideous ( and yet the previous was nice - could be my Matra bias )

When generalising a nations cars, are we also generalising across time ?
French cars in the 50s were very utilitarian - built to do a job and that carried over into the 60s. 2CV, R4 to name 2.
But they also produve the DS series which are still futuristic looking and ground-breaking - steerable front lights resurrected this year and claimed as NEW

The one thing I might add is that to me Australian designed cars haven't changed. THey still have that muscle car look. Now sometimes I'll admit to liking it but not all the time and all cars.

In all of this, I'm not including the low volume, speciliast and concept cars as they are more to do with individuals !!

Coming back to my first question.
An old trick at work to make sure we've considered all the possibilities is to come up with 3 good things about a solution before the negative. It ensures engineers consider all the options. Maybe to those who are polarised on car design should answer that challenge and name 3 good looks from each manufacturer. It'll help the balance. I certainly hadn't known about small manfuctuers in OZ until another post had made me go research it