New VE Pictures. Is it a Commodore or a Falcon???

[adrenaline]

Well, I am a loyal Holden man unlike my 2nd cousin who unfortunately races for fpv now.... Traitor to the family... I will always buy a commodore over a falcon and I have driven both at my work which leases many many cars from The doggies major sponsor Leaseplan.

That kind of attitude...where you will ALWAYS buy a commodore over a falcon...and family members that drive falcons are 'traitors'... just annoys me. If it was a thing against the BF falcon for whatever reason, then fine. But to the extent where the commodore is better because it is a commodore...because its obviously better than a falcon...is just sad. At present you would be crazy to say that the VZ is superior to the BF..although that will change with the arrival of the VE.


BTW last year i heard about a falcon upgrade in the months leading up to the VE...nothing technically major, but a cosmetic refresh. Can anyone clarify?

[Blitz_]

Sometimes you get some that are thinking of buying a model as it's tempting, then you get some that buy a new model to get a feel of it and they might keep it, But still test drive another new model when it comes out.
Me personally i would grab a XR BF II And Come back for Series 2 Orion. Bit the same with holden, Even though i think the days of bad bugs in new models are gone almost, I don't think the backlash days of AU are coming back, Nor the 500,000km new gen3 that went into the VT II and burned and slapped the city.
But you can get some great deals when new cars come around. I spotted a Monaro Series 3 about 3 months after the VZ Monaro came out, Brand new with all options $50,000 drive-away.

But say i owned a BA, I'm a ford man i like the Falcon it's done me no wrong, I might buy a BF XR, Wait till orion have a good look and go for one.
Some might buy VE, And stack it up against the Orion and trade the VE for it, Or some might say I'll go for a top deal get a XR cheap. And wait.

You know with HSV they are stubborn, When holden got rid of the W grill HSV got pissed off and keep-ed it, The meaner and sportier holden make the VE HSV will try and top it, There sole goal is to change as much so it's not holden, And they can do it not being attached to holden, Truth is they dont get on all that great but there relationship has improved of late.
And i think thats what FPV has got to do brake more away from Ford like they have with the BF series it's more of a push away. Keep pushing people don't buy HSV's top drive Holden's commodore.

True true, im thinking that with the majority of neautral buyers they may opt with buying the VE and then comparing it with the orion when it is released - having a new toy is always good to show and flaunt, and a new commodore parked in ur drive way won't be any different.

HSV and Holden have always had tension between them, makes the whole relationship that much more "entertaining" to see when headlines pop up. Hope that HSV move away from the plastic pig image with all the bolt on kits and start to make some "beautiful" looking cars that still fit into the muscle car image, but evolve a fair way into the more good to look at category.

FPV's progress with the GT and what not has been rather slow if i may say lol, well ive got an old MKI BA GT poster stashed away, and its a great deal different from what we see now. If only they had relased what we see now back then, it would have jumped the gun so much quicker. Anyone thinking we'll be back to the days of both holden and ford having racing stripes? lol just a random thought really, seeing as the GTO's have 'em, ala the Starsky and Hutch rip off in motor (or was it wheels :S)

BTW last year i heard about a falcon upgrade in the months leading up to the VE...nothing technically major, but a cosmetic refresh. Can anyone clarify?

I haven't heard anything yet, I thought they would stop at the BF MKII? If it were another upgrade, im thinking, because of the distance from the orion being released, it would actually be a bit substantial. That, and the VE release would call for something more cosmetic rather than mechanical me thinks. Furthermore, the Orion and a (real) performance 380 are on the way, this will also push for more of a cosmetic change.



EDIT: how bout we close this poll until the official or at least full spy pics have been released aye? lol im sick of all the fanboys signing up just to pick the "screw you adrenaline this car rocks" box.

[nota]

At present you would be crazy to say that the VZ is superior to the BF..although that will change with the arrival of the VE.

I agree, its hardly an intalekchual decision to morgage your soul to any particular brand. The marketing guys die for this kind of blind brand loyalty - and to think some customers give it away for free

In recent years most reviews subjectively consider that Ford seems to build a better mousetrap than Holden. But whether or not that verdict will change with VE will also will be a decision based on subjective merit, and also a buyer-judgement via personal priorities

Currently, mainstream BFs feature a superior chassis and refinement, better automatics, more 6cyl power yet with greater economy (IIIRC?) over VZ. The VE's increased weight may well preclude it from eclipsing BFs dynamic advantage, and its increased price (an inevitable baggage from VE development costs) won't help its subjective competitiveness either. Nor perhaps will Holden build quality of its brand new model - already inferior to Ford

Lots of people preferred old-model Holden EH to its HD replacement, likewise Falcon XY to the XA redesign. So we'll just have to wait and see what advantages - and disadvantages - VE has over VZ, and maybe BF

[adrenaline]

how bout we close this poll until the official or at least full spy pics have been released aye? lol im sick of all the fanboys signing up just to pick the "screw you adrenaline this car rocks" box.

Too right you are.

From looking at those spy shots i can see one problem, which is the interior. From what I have seen it will be of a similiar concept to the VZ and BF, which is the centre verticle console. IMO its really getting outdated and virtually every manufacturer has used the design over and over again. Why not go for a more horizontal design like the 7 series/ S class?? From the spy pics that slick posted the inner doors look terrible. Can anyone spot the speakers stuck in front of the passenger side door handle? They arent even incorporated into the door like the BA/F, its just a circle sticking out...the same step ford took to help cut costs on the tezza!

Inner door

The centre console design they have there will probably be nice in the end, but i would have thought that one billion dollars of development would get you something more original

[IBrake4Rainbows]

It doesn't need to be original if they can improve on what's passed.

I agree that it already, somehow, looks dated from the few scrappy pictures of the inside. but being classical is not bad considering fashion is a fickle thing and Dashboards are expensive. they're thinking ahead to update time because they probably could make it look different for little cost.

[SlickHolden]

Slick your a legend!!

Thank you i know lol

Too right you are.

From looking at those spy shots i can see one problem, which is the interior. From what I have seen it will be of a similiar concept to the VZ and BF, which is the centre verticle console. IMO its really getting outdated and virtually every manufacturer has used the design over and over again. Why not go for a more horizontal design like the 7 series/ S class?? From the spy pics that slick posted the inner doors look terrible. Can anyone spot the speakers stuck in front of the passenger side door handle? They arent even incorporated into the door like the BA/F, its just a circle sticking out...the same step ford took to help cut costs on the tezza!

Inner door

The centre console design they have there will probably be nice in the end, but i would have thought that one billion dollars of development would get you something more original

All model Commodores have had vertical centre consoles and the same type doors handles, I could show you a pick of myn and it's similar it's there thing they keep.
On the speaker thats a improvement over all other models before it, Myn has it in the dash at both ends, The VR-VS in the door very low, It would be a guess for VT onwards as i haven't seen many in the doors, But that way you get the sound without blocking it, And i really don't like the VR-VS ones your leg hits them all the time.

I agree, its hardly an intalekchual decision to morgage your soul to any particular brand. The marketing guys die for this kind of blind brand loyalty - and to think some customers give it away for free

In recent years most reviews subjectively consider that Ford seems to build a better mousetrap than Holden. But whether or not that verdict will change with VE will also will be a decision based on subjective merit, and also a buyer-judgement via personal priorities

Currently, mainstream BFs feature a superior chassis and refinement, better automatics, more 6cyl power yet with greater economy (IIIRC?) over VZ. The VE's increased weight may well preclude it from eclipsing BFs dynamic advantage, and its increased price (an inevitable baggage from VE development costs) won't help its subjective competitiveness either. Nor perhaps will Holden build quality of its brand new model - already inferior to Ford

Lots of people preferred old-model Holden EH to its HD replacement, likewise Falcon XY to the XA redesign. So we'll just have to wait and see what advantages - and disadvantages - VE has over VZ, and maybe BF

I'm not one for the older models myself, But i loved the VB to VH and wouldn't own or drive a VK it to me was the dud model in the whole commodore range. I'm not a fan of the VN also.

[fpv_gtho]

You know personally these interior shots are just further proof Holden have dropped the ball on VE. Again, thats only a match for BA/BF. How will Holden last 2 years with that waiting for Ford, let alone 5 years until they can justify changing the design.

[SlickHolden]

That's a pretty big statement from a couple of mobile camera pics mate.
We still haven't seen the dash at all yet, And in person it might be better or worse?, But till we get some better or official pics it's hard to get to get excited at all, Maybe if i had taken the pictures i might have a woody wood pecker
But from them pics other then the speaker where it is i still like the old door trims. I don't mind the colour as i have looked at a VT Berlina with the same colour and it's surprisingly nice .

[fpv_gtho]

So?

Even if these pics are showing something only average, the real thing is unlikely to be leaps and bounds ahead of that.

Again, i say how can Holden hope to last 2 years with that, let alone the required 5 years.

[SlickHolden]

Well, I guess it will be the same as how can ford last 2 years with what they have when there are new models all around them.
The Door trims have been basically the same since VT. And i can go back to VN which carried the same console from the transmission back to the centre console from 88 to 97.

[fpv_gtho]

Slick you missed the point, the BA's been around since '02 and had one of the best interiors of a local. This is a completely new model for Holden, not a mid life model seeing its last days. If Holden can only match and slightly better the BA, they will completely lose out in '08.

[IBrake4Rainbows]

I said it before - when a manufacturer is rewarded (in this case with sales) for mediocrity, it becomes the norm.

But the counterargument to this is that because the panels are so 'bland' they will integrate VERY well to any facelift. the good thing about bland is that it matches everything, and, i think, to have a radical dash design would date it further because in 5 years the architecture is weird and it leaves very little option.

the Centre console of the VN-VSII models is a good example - because it was bland and functional, it fitted with all designs they organised with minimal fuss.

It's a cop out, but when you've spent a Billion dollars on a project without thinking of updateability, you're only kidding yourself.

[SlickHolden]

I agree ford has the best interior bar none, But it's easy to make a huge improvement over what came before it, the AU really missed the boat bad, My brother interior was as good as a AU.
Ford set the bench mark very high with the BA interior, Especially the dash thats gold It matches many overseas cars also. But it's going to be as hard for them not just holden to improve better then it.

[IBrake4Rainbows]

I think they've done well, but even in the latest Wheels comparo, they say it's a good Australian interior, not a world beater.

It's about Material more than design - give me a boring but well made interior over a funky-but-citroen-bad interior.

Plus, it IS only a few phone camera shots.

[SlickHolden]

I think they both feel nice, Mine is of cheap plastic type, It creaks and moans on hard corners but it's old now.
I'm more a fan of the BA VY interiors then the ones before it.