If a chassis is twisted, can it be repaired?

**adamfraser** · 01-24-2006, 11:57 AM

Light damage at the front, i thought it would be worse. Hmm

**McReis** · 01-24-2006, 12:04 PM

Are you sure you can get it for free? Run for it NOW!!!

**6speed** · 01-24-2006, 12:12 PM

Is it really a good deal? I don't think it has an engine...

**nota** · 01-24-2006, 12:35 PM

Not related to Civic, but maybe a portent of things to come

Reportedly, if the aluminium-intense front structure on BMW 5 & 6 series is bent more than 1mm out of shape it cannot be repaired* and has to be cut out and replaced. This skyrockets the cost of repairs so even lightly damaged examples are being declared a total loss

* because then declared no longer insurable, also voids conditional factory warranty

**McReis** · 01-24-2006, 12:39 PM

Originally Posted by nota

Not related to Civic, but maybe a portent of things to come

Reportedly, if the aluminium-intense front structure on BMW 5 & 6 series is bent more than 1mm out of shape it cannot be repaired* and has to be cut out and replaced. This skyrockets the cost of repairs so even lightly damaged examples are being declared a total loss

* because then declared no longer insurable, also voids conditional factory warranty

No insurable? Hard to prove the damage ever existed if you don't tell your insurance company.

And the 1mm thing seems a bit exagerated. If that info is correct, than I would never, ever buy a 5 or 6. If that became public noone ever would because damaging the front structure on a relatively small accident is something very easy to happen.

**magracer** · 01-24-2006, 12:40 PM

Anything is a good deal if its free. I think the catch is that there will be some legal costs associated (be them taxes or fees). A quick call should be able to answer that question. What about transportation? Is it in the same city as you are?

It must have severe undercarriage damage: i.e box, axles, probably engine gone. But you can still sell the seats, lights, panels, etc through the internet.

**johnnynumfiv** · 01-24-2006, 12:40 PM

If it needs an airbag, that probably means that the airbag went off, that is thousands to repair, the chassis/ body repair won't cost nearly as much as that.

**nota** · 01-24-2006, 01:06 PM

Originally Posted by McReis

No insurable? Hard to prove the damage ever existed if you don't tell your insurance company.

And the 1mm thing seems a bit exagerated. If that info is correct, than I would never, ever buy a 5 or 6. If that became public noone ever would because damaging the front structure on a relatively small accident is something very easy to happen.

Well obviously you have to involve your insurance company don't you?

Apparently not exagerated - here mate, see what I found for you. Only 1mm tolerance, and aluminium is unrepairable so must be cut out and replaced. And I too would think twice before owning one, especially considering the effect it would/must have on insurance premiums. I wonder if aluminium Jag XJ8 is similar? This is going to be a growing issue imo, for example how will 'pedestrian friendly' Citroen C6 pop-up bonnet affect repair costs and therefore premiums?

BMW: Tiny Crashes Are A Total Loss

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Link: http://www.latimes.com/classified/a...ack=1&cset=true

By Ralph Vartabedian, Los Angeles Times Staff Writer

If you hear talk about things such as rivets, epoxy adhesives and aluminum structures, you might guess the subject involves airplanes.

But in this case, we are talking about the front ends of recent BMW Series 5 and Series 6 cars, which are constructed with many of the same techniques you might find at the Northrop Grumman F-18 assembly plant in El Segundo.

BMW touts the vehicles for their remarkable handling, fuel economy and elite engineering, but critics of the designs say they are impractical, vulnerable to minor accidents and difficult to repair the way BMW recommends.

The technology is another step in a much broader auto industry trend that is making collision repairs ever more costly, a kinder way of saying manufacturers are building throw-away cars. It means that more cars are totaled when they have relatively modest damage, particularly if they are more than five years old.

Although BMWs can certainly be repaired, it requires a degree of sophistication and cost that may be unprecedented.

BMW will certify auto body technicians only if they are employees of BMW dealerships, using BMW-approved parts, tools, adhesives and rivets. Though independent shops can buy equipment and get training, they are not allowed to say they perform certified repairs, BMW's official seal of approval.

"It is a game," said Don Feeley, owner of three independent body shops in Riverside. "Absolutely, they are shutting auto body shops out of their business."

Of course, BMW does not see it like that.

The BMW system, code named the Grav 60, was introduced in the 2004 model year. It features an aluminum firewall, which separates the engine compartment from the interior, and frame rails that extend forward, all riveted and glued to the rest of the car's steel structure. When the cars come out of the factory they are built to a tolerance of 1 millimeter, about the thickness of a dime.

The entire front structure weighs just 100 pounds, meaning the vehicles have a nearly perfect 50/50 weight distribution between the front and rear wheels, said Jeff Kohut, BMW's paint and body business development manager.

"It handles better," Kohut said. "Go drive a car with a steel nose and you can tell the difference cornering, braking and turning."

But one important question is what happens when your prized BMW gets kissed in the real world. With steel frame cars that are robotically welded at the factory, a body expert can put the car on a rack and bend it back into shape.

Under BMW's guidelines, any bending on the front end is verboten. An accident that deforms the front end by more than 1 millimeter requires the replacement of the main front-end structures. Because the engine, transmission, suspension and body are all connected to those structures, it is a labor-intensive process.

What's more, BMW specifies technicians can use only certain specialized tools, such as rivet extractors and rivet guns. Kenneth Zion, an auto body instructor at El Camino College and an independent collision consultant, says a shop can spend as much as $100,000 to fully outfit itself for BMW repairs. Zion, who has learned the system and will introduce the technology at El Camino, said the new system is unprecedented in how tightly the manufacturer is controlling the repair process.

It is so tight, in fact, that the repair and insurance industries are going a little nuts.

Article continues at link.

There is a huge amount of complexity to repairing the higher end BMWs for sure..my 645 has Sheet molding compound,plastic,aluminum and steel held together by molecular welds and other bonding processes, and just cant be repaired except at BMW. The M6 I have on order adds some Carbon fibre to the front and back ends and the roof, so repair costs are inded very high.

A buddy of mine was rear ended by an E class in Germany a coupe of weeks ago in his brand new M6. The damage didnt look too bad...(pictures on the M6 Board)but came back at about $35,000...

http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/sho...d.php?tt=60003

overall I have to say that the article is not BS..it is a very big ticket item if you do any substantial damage,

**6speed** · 01-24-2006, 01:06 PM

Originally Posted by magracer

Anything is a good deal if its free. I think the catch is that there will be some legal costs associated (be them taxes or fees). A quick call should be able to answer that question. What about transportation? Is it in the same city as you are?

It must have severe undercarriage damage: i.e box, axles, probably engine gone. But you can still sell the seats, lights, panels, etc through the internet.

Would I get more money then I would have to pay for taxes, fee's and towing?