Novice
Does anyone here rember the old school Groub B racing? The reason ive put this post up is because ive never seen a post talk about Group B and also that i think it had and still does have some of the fastest rally and LM racers ever made.
P.S. feel free to talk about any cars from the Group B era.
Enthusiast
Group B factoid: The Delta S4 was so fast around the Estoril GP circuit that it would have qualified in 6th place for it's homologation year GP if it had been allowed to enter!
www.crash.net/motoring/roadcars/news/home/
Novice
yeh well shit happens mate. Have u seen the prototype ferrari 288 gto rally racer.
Enthusiast
Wow - what an incredibly mature reply *claps*Originally Posted by Markie Boy
Fanatic
The myth has always been there but facts rarely adds up.....how likely it is that for a car with less horsepower, more weight and makes no downforce be as fast as a F1 car on qualifier rubber back in the 80s.....
University of Toronto Formula SAE Alumni 2003-2007
Formula Student Championship 2003, 2005, 2006
www.fsae.utoronto.ca
Enthusiast
Not a great deal more weight I shouldn't think. If it was done as a PR stunt, it would have been without spare tyres, navigator etc I would have thought. You could also assume that the S4 would also be on very sticky rubber and it does have 4WD and some downforce - albeit not as much as an F1 car.
Having said that, it could all just be a myth of course!
www.crash.net/motoring/roadcars/news/home/
Super Moderator
The "myth" has some facts in it.
Toivonen DID run teh S4 on the Estoril circuit ..... BUT it included a loop of gravel, so comparing times isnt' "fair". BUT it was said that the F1 teams stopped their "strutting" when they saw the times Henri posted.
The thing about a GroupB rally car was that the tyres were UNLIMITED. So you could put MUCH wider rubber than F1 permitted. PLUS, there were 4 equal size tyres providing traction and MASSIVE mult-pot brakes in each corner for stopping. The GroupB cars only weighed a couple of hundred kilos more !!!
On top of that latter evolution S4s were reportedly running 1000 hp !!! GroupB cars out-accelerated F1 cars of their day by the numbers
Last edited by Matra et Alpine; 04-18-2006 at 06:51 AM.
"A woman without curves is like a road without bends, you might get to your destination quicker but the ride is boring as hell'
Enthusiast
Yeah, it was never going to be a rally car though - just a cunning way to get from the 288 to the F40 whilst creating a bit of PR in the process. Still gorgeous though!
www.crash.net/motoring/roadcars/news/home/
Enthusiast
I don't know about 'mature' - certainly confusing though!
www.crash.net/motoring/roadcars/news/home/
Novice
lol! yeh but the 288 evo was f ing kool.
Novice
ey did u ever see the porsche 959 moby dick that car was nuts it would blow the doors off any other car today easily it would beat an f1 car in a straight line and i saw a video of it getting pretty far ahead of a porsche gt1 which is very impressive since it has no computer assists.
Supporting Admin
There is no 959 Moby Dick; the Moby Dick was a 935.
If you should see a man walking down a crowded street talking aloud to himself, don't run in the opposite direction, but run towards him, because he's a poet. You have nothing to fear from the poet - but the truth.
(Ted Joans)
moby dick was a 70's LM racer, and i highly doubt that it would be faster than an F1 car or Porsche GT1
Super Moderator
I thought the engine in the 959 was a derivative of "moby dick" as the water-cooled Porsche competition engine of the time ?
"A woman without curves is like a road without bends, you might get to your destination quicker but the ride is boring as hell'
Super Moderator
The 959 was NEVER a serious contender for GroupB rallys it was developed with the proposed GRoupB RACING regs but as rallying took over the formula entries then it was misplaced.
Porsche did run modified 911s to 959 spec in rallying to save face and did well. But nevere as serious winning formula and not worth the investment it woudl have taken to be competitive in GroupB world stage.
Likewise the Ferrari. It was OK for tarmac but all wrong for forest.
But to return to the main topic of GroupB touring car RACING, I'd like to see more pics and results if anyone has them
Last edited by Matra et Alpine; 04-18-2006 at 04:23 AM.
"A woman without curves is like a road without bends, you might get to your destination quicker but the ride is boring as hell'
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