Jackass Clarkson destroys 911

[henk4]

So sadly I was right >

Ok, Im not fueling the "image" you portray.

Tell you what I'll say nothing more about it, the evidence is there.

a surprising retreat for someone with allegedly superior debating skills

[VtecMini]

Right or wrongness aside, I think Matra at least deserves some props for arguing until 8am in the morning. Rock on, Mr endurance arguing king.

[DesmoRob]

ROFL!

i laughed when the headlight fell out.

Seriously, if you have the money. Why not? I'd take a 200, NSX, porsche, Ferrari even and smash derby it if i didnt have t o pay for it

you are a sick person.

[DesmoRob]

Clarkson goes and destroys a perfect example of a 911, just because he can. Meanwhile, other people out there spend years trying to reach their goal of attaining a car like that. This is just not right IMO. Sure, seeing destruction can be fun, but it just really hurts to watch it done to a 911. I used to find him funny and entertaining, but now he's crossed the line.

[csl177]

Well. It's doubtful this thread will be done yet, but I have to respond once more, if only because the direction the discussion went was so disturbing.

For those of us that bailed early since it was turning into a bad episode of "Argument Clinic", all one can suggest is that the lowest common denominator has always been utilized by anyone ready to make a buck as a means of taking it from the willing masses. Just because it is successful commerce doesn't make it good or right. My (and others) antipathy for this "entertainment" isn't because it was a Porsche. It was the idea of destruction to entertain, something that many others tried (unsuccesfully) to get other posters to respond to, rationally and objectively.


Nonetheless... this is still as true as ever: Culture devolves as we allow it.

If the Romans had TV in the time of the Circus Maximus, you can bet
the liquor, tobacco, and gaming industry would have been underwriters.

And it would have been a commercial hit. Our time is no different.

[Matra et Alpine]

Clarkson goes and destroys a perfect example of a 911, just because he can. Meanwhile, other people out there spend years trying to reach their goal of attaining a car like that. This is just not right IMO. Sure, seeing destruction can be fun, but it just really hurts to watch it done to a 911. I used to find him funny and entertaining, but now he's crossed the line.

COME ON Rob.

Even to the most amateurish of car mechanics that 911 was a million miles away from a "perfect example" !!!

It's that kind of emotional BS that some are clinging too.

NOBODY wants to "attain ownership" of a car that costs 5-10 times more to restore than it costs to buy a decent example.

That is living in cloud-cukoo land and sadly it seems to be getting a crowded neighbourhood

It ALSO is very dangerous to people wallets to think that every 911 is worth restoring. New entrants to the classic car ownership make that mistake ALL the time, investing TENS of thousands of pounds/dollars/euros to buy and EVEN MORE to restore their "dream car". To fidn they've got somethgin that they coudl have bought for a fraction and given the rest fo their money to teh family to enjoy otehr pastimes with. Those "foosl easily parted with their money" are closely followed by kti car owners who as said already will inevst lots fo money thinking it's a "good investment" to be sadly disappointed once they find the reality of prices

Check out ANY onlien car trading site. I posted teh UK AutoTrader one adn eBay showing how cheaply you coudl buy a 911 to show they're NOT rare.

How much does an engine overhaul cost on a 911 ?
Gearbox ?
Diff ?
How much for a driveshafts ?
Disc rotors ?
Suspension bushes ?
Suspension arms ?
Brake cylinders - master and slaves ?
Clutch cylinders - master and slave ?
Replacment chassis legs ? Panels ?
Loom ?
Interior repairs -- torn seat ? worn seat springs ? carpet ? seat belts ?


Even on something NOT withhte Porsche logo on it those above can add up to 15 to 20 thousand pounds for something like an ESCORT, never mind teh Porsche uplift.

If you REALY want to think that it's affordable then before you follow your nose on that in teh future, jstu price out some fo the above list and look at the time in teh workshop manual to do them. At least tehn if you decide to buy and restore a clunker Porsche you'll know up front how much it will cost.

Have a look around owners clubs and see how many "part completerd" restorations and kit cars thre are. Those are people who didnt' check prices or times and ran out of money/time/interest before completing it. Sadly those caught in that trap can be a good srouce for the savvy buyer

( and that list ( and THAT is only part of it ) and intelligent analysis is what seperates the "noob" classic/kit car owner and the experienced )

[Matra et Alpine]

If the Romans had TV in the time of the Circus Maximus, you can bet
the liquor, tobacco, and gaming industry would have been underwriters.

And it would have been a commercial hit. Our time is no different.

not really...........

It was the porn industry back in Roman times as well

( Just the RC church destroyed and "hid" most of the images )

and interesting that in citing Roman times did you intentionally take us to the ultimate in "crash watching" with chariot races, fighting to the death, mass executions and feeding people to lions ?

[nota]

Nicely avoided the waste of resource of ALL motorsports, nota

I didn't avoid it .. I ignored it

Like I said previous, I haven't seen the vids. Within that proviso, I've read that the 911 engine was out, so I presume the car is a hapless 'static display' that gets trashed?

And that's why I chose to ignore your tenuous (at best) attempt to equate a 911 that accidentally gets totalled during a motor race while providing dynamic enjoyment to the driver etc .. to a non-goer that 'for the viewers pleasure' is blown up or whatever, for shits & giggles

Wot fun eh chaps?

No I cannot see the paralel you try to conjure - at all

All the tree-huggers grab the same lofty "highly evolved sense of refinement & sophistication " BS and want you to give up cars !!!

No offence taken at being labelled a tree hugger, quite the opposite. Gaia is my 'god' of choice, a more logical god than either JC imho

And allow me to return the lecture because as it stands on a personal level I have indisputably acted more environmentally than thou (I've no kinder, so no ongoing enviro impost ). So BS back at ya, and I want you to stand on the street corner for the next three weeks handing out condoms !!!

To spell it out, by my prudent non-reproductive actions my enviro-credit bank is far more replete than a certain Scot, who has not only created his own 'future eaters' but to cap it off seems determined to defend JC's public glorification/wHoreship of destruction for its own inane sake. By comparison I could drive a slurpy V8 for the rest of my remaining years, yet because I have no kids, I bequeath an infinitely smaller 'enviro footprint' onto mother earth than .. ahem guess who?

The beauty fo teh human race is we DO all find different things enjoyable.
Long me it last ... or we'd NEVER have had Monty Python ( in fact your post above was probalby written by Mary Whitehouse about Monty Python in the 70s )

Oh brother so according to you I'm now a religio-puritan conservative .. because I've voiced my dis-admiration for purile violence? How long a bow are you trying to draw here? And if Monty Python = JC trashboy, well lets just say that British humour ain't what it used to be

Like I said, some of us are more evolved ..

[Matra et Alpine]

No, Nota, youre response were EXACTLY what I was sugggesting.

EVERYONE has SOMEONE who belives themselves to be "more evolved".

I was only usign the examples to point out the other positions alogn that path and that trygin to FORCE someoen to adhere to a "higher standard2 makes it euqally valid to be the target of somenoenmakeing that demand on them>

hence my tree-huggers comment.

So whilst we are debating the worht of a 911 destruction otehrs are equally saygin ALL crs shodul be destroyed to save teh environment.

Guess I REALLY DO need to write more and MORE to explain in more detail dont' have the time mate )


and the poitn about MP was it too attracted negative comments and yet now everyeon thinks it the best thing since slice-bread ( it is but only in places ).
So should ALL of MP be discounted because SOME objected to SOME parts of it ? Jsut trygin to get eyes open to the big picture and the hypocrisy of most of hte landscape

so ... comgin back to the bit you ignored .... shoudl all motorsport be immediately illegal as it wastes resources only in teh name of entertainment ????????

[nota]

NGuess I REALLY DO need to write more and MORE to explain in more detail dont' have the time mate )

I myself find it difficult to carry out 'spontaneously predictive' conversations over the net

so ... comgin back to the bit you ignored .... shoudl all motorsport be immediately illegal as it wastes resources only in teh name of entertainment ????????

Well motorsport is not mere entertainment is it? For example before I first drove a motor car I was able to learn a shipload about car control theory just through watching and closely observing motorsport, merely through the TV. So a safety/educational benefit for one (to both participants and onlookers) along with the many techno advances that have evolved through motorsport

So as far as enviro goes, you have to weigh positive/negative. And in the larger scheme of (enviro) negatives that exist, m-sport is very small beer indeed when compared to my goodness how many other forms of wastrel consumption that occur, at infinately greater magnitude

For me, first cabs off the rank would be the big boys like energy, industry, power generation, the fecking arms industry etc etc .. with motorsport defendably waaay down the to-do list. From a bannage pov, if I had my druthers I'd rather see larger targets like cigarettes or children's junk food (or expoitative deforestation or overfishing for pet food, or GWB-esq entities) and a hundred other destructors banned, in decreasing negativity, long before teensy motorsport appeared in my sights

So, Motorsport is as much a positive as a neg, which is more than I might credit to Clarkson's antics

[Matra et Alpine]

I myself find it difficult to carry out 'spontaneously predictive' conversations over the net

Come on nota, you KNWO the question was asked DIRECTLY.

Nothing "predictive " was requried jsut a little less wrigglign

Well motorsport is not mere entertainment is it?

You serious ??

For example before I first drove a motor car I was able to learn a shipload about car control theory just through watching and closely observing motorsport, merely through the TV.

You learned all you actually needed to use a car as transport frmo A to B in yrou driving lessons and confirmed by passing yoru compulsory driving test.
The rest is self indulgence

So a safety/educational benefit for one (to both participants and onlookers) along with the many techno advances that have evolved through motorsport

BS.THe same excuse put up for the NASA programs.
he spend BILLIOSN here and we get spin-offs worht millions.
Read on how the Japanese are doign their space program ..... identify WHAT you need and spedn milliosn to be the world leaders in those. THEN do a space program.
Car innovation does not NEED motorsport, though it's a very public spur for it.
It's like the internt and porn.
We get a better internet because porn funds and wants it but it didn;t NEED it to deliver the technology

So as far as enviro goes, you have to weigh positive/negative. And in the larger scheme of (enviro) negatives that exist, m-sport is very small beer indeed when compared to my goodness how many other forms of wastrel consumption that occur, at infinately greater magnitude

and you confirm teh WHOLE poitn first raised.
In teh whoel scheme of things one rusty 911 with a beat up engine and tranny is "small beer". Thansk ... see you CAN do that "predictive" thingy

For me, first cabs off the rank would be the big boys like energy, industry, power generation, the fecking arms industry etc etc .. with motorsport defendably waaay down the to-do list. From a bannage pov, if I had my druthers I'd rather see larger targets like cigarettes or children's junk food (or expoitative deforestation or overfishing for pet food, or GWB-esq entities) and a hundred other destructors banned, in decreasing negativity, long before teensy motorsport appeared in my sights

And agreeing again that a 911 is small frie and yet beign condemned
Anyway, justifying stealing a chocolate bar from a corner store because someone stole millions of dollars from Brinks-Mat doesnt' stack up
It'#s selfish consumption.

So, Motorsport is as much a positive as a neg, which is more than I might credit to Clarkson's antics

Only cos you refuse to be honest abtou the truth about motorsport.
It's an opiate for the masses (NASCAR) and a playground for the rich and hope-to-be-famous (F1, Le Mans, etc)
In the middle is the Clubman motorsport which is there for pure ego, personal and selfish enjoyment.


Selfish and happy to my part in motorsport coz I'm important to me
But I dont' try to wrap it up in anything other than for my enjoymetn and advancement !!!!

[DesmoRob]

COME ON Rob.

Even to the most amateurish of car mechanics that 911 was a million miles away from a "perfect example" !!!

Ok so maaaybe it wasn't perfect, but its decent, and its a Porsche. You probably see nice cars all the time in Scotland, but here where I live, I'll be lucky to see a bmw or a mercedes, so I have a much higher appreciation for Porsches. I know it sounds pathetic .

[Matra et Alpine]

Ok so maaaybe it wasn't perfect, but its decent, and its a Porsche. You probably see nice cars all the time in Scotland, but here where I live, I'll be lucky to see a bmw or a mercedes, so I have a much higher appreciation for Porsches. I know it sounds pathetic .

Not really, but does explain it and I think highlights what I was saying about hoping OTHERS will spend money to keep things because they have a different value for where you live.

It's like asking a Scotsman to pay for water.
Hurts me every time I'm in the US and to get decent drinkign water have to buy it in big bottles
Good water is abundant for us and "free".
I'm sure anyone watching from South England watching us wash our cars, water our gardens pisses them off too. But it won't stop me using water and shouldn't should it

[Sauc3]

Is this still going on about the Porsche discussion? I haven't quite followed the thread and I'm not planning to read through the whole thing. If any of my points have already been covered, my apologies. The last few posts seem to gravitate towards the merits of motorsports, and strangly water... I'm just gonna ignore those.

First of all, I'd like to attract your attention to the following.
http://motors.search.ebay.com/porsch...6001QQsbrsrtZl
This is an ebay link, (you know, the big online auction thingio which sells almost everything) with a list of 911s for sale. For ease of use, I arranged it in the manner so oldest are shown first. Here we see a good variety of these cars, in all states and shapes, with all different price tags. This is just this week, and I'm sure that countless more of these cars have passed through this website, not to mention private magazine adverts and classics websites, amongst other. Alright, so now we've established that this isn't the most exotic of cars, with quite a lot of examples floating around.
Next, you might notice that the most expensive example that's being bid on is roughly $20,000, but, they can most certainly vary in price. I wouldn't expect the example shown in the video to manage more than a $7000 price tag. If that. These two prices taken into comparison, a good example should be within reach for about $12,000 (all in US currency). This is not a MASSIVE amount of money, and comparable to a normal econobox or daily driver. These two facts combined now mean that there's a lot of examples, both left and for sale, and they're not unnatainable for the average person.

Now, I think the points already been made about many of these cars having been sent to the junkyard? To continue on from that, how many of these do you think there are in a delapitated condition, either sitting in someone's driveway half covered by an old tarpauling with a season's worth of leaves on it being held down by 3 bricks and housing a raccoon family? Or even driving around being used as daily drivers? Tons! This would mean that, similar to the example that Jeremy destroyed, there's a very large number of these being destroyed day by day, bit by bit. Instead of whinging about a car being destroyed on a TV show which harmed noone in one bit, start worrying about all the cars that are being destroyed day in and day out, because they're being over-used without the proper treatment or sitting somewhere without any care or attention being spent on them.
"For just 2 dollars a day, YOU can sponsor a Porsche in NEED. Here's Fred, he's a 1967 Porsche 911S coupe. He sits on the street all night, and has to make the trip all the way to work and back every day without a single drop of care. Donate now and YOU can change an attainable sportscar's life, you can make a difference."

Final point in this rant, it's nothing more than a possible material posession. It's as much yours or mine as a piece of paper (Which, by the way, something living had to die for in order to be made. Where's the massive outcries about that?) is, and once burnt to a crisp not more more of one remains than the other. Perhaps a slightly larger pile of ashes. Basically, WHO CARES? It's an item, it met it's end. At least it didn't die an "anonymous death" sitting in the back of some farmer's yard covered by 20 square metres of rust and 20 years of overgrowing grass.

One man's entertainment is another's nightmare. We have to live with both.
One man's treasure is another's trash. And the other way around. Learn to live with it.

[nota]

Come on nota, you KNWO the question was asked DIRECTLY.

The question was barely comprehensible but I managed to decipher it!

Nothing "predictive " was requried jsut a little less wrigglign

merely TRYING to sympathise with you about the time impost, not 'wrigglign' at all

You serious ??

Yes. Where else do you recommend that people practice their skid-control in a safe environment, if not on the track .. the local highway?

You learned all you actually needed to use a car as transport frmo A to B in yrou driving lessons and confirmed by passing yoru compulsory driving test.
The rest is self indulgence

Pardon me but you clearly don't know jack about how I learned, or what my motoring needs are. Its not self indulgent to master advanced car control for safety, especially on the crap roads I battle with here. I was self-taught btw, no lessons

BS.THe same excuse put up for the NASA programs.
he spend BILLIOSN here and we get spin-offs worht millions.

Enjoy your teflon frypan? I did, along with the Tang orange-concentrate in my larder. Trillions of $$ of spin-offs, not millions

Read on how the Japanese are doign their space program ..... identify WHAT you need and spedn milliosn to be the world leaders in those. THEN do a space program.

Don't have to, its been on the news here for years. Scramjets invented here, proto'd here, tested here, refined here, so much coverage.

What the hell does controlling opposite-lock slides on a racetrack (or JC televised sado-wank sessions for morons) have to do with the jap space program for gods sake???

Car innovation does not NEED motorsport, though it's a very public spur for it.

Can you think of a better forum for testing automotive innovations?

It's like the internt and porn.
We get a better internet because porn funds and wants it but it didn;t NEED it to deliver the technology

According to you I'm suddenly Mary Whitehouse .. so no comment except that all this hi-tech porn must have unhinged your mind - take a pill mate

and you confirm teh WHOLE poitn first raised.
In teh whoel scheme of things one rusty 911 with a beat up engine and tranny is "small beer". Thansk ... see you CAN do that "predictive" thingy

And agreeing again that a 911 is small frie and yet beign condemned

The type of motorsport >I< do enjoy watching is good clean racing. Same while watching the TV, not like unevolved knuckledraggers who evidently drool over a toffy upper class Brit-twit who descends to smashing up dunger Porsches .. must be a UK thing, as most of JC's defenders on here are a virtual en-mass el-pommo bloc I've noticed

Anyway, justifying stealing a chocolate bar from a corner store because someone stole millions of dollars from Brinks-Mat doesnt' stack up
It'#s selfish consumption.

Getting to feel like the selfish consumption around here is you expecting me to keep replying to your varigated gibberish

.. getting .. so tired .. losing interest .. must preserve .. sanity .. avoid .. argueboy .. mercy .. hepl .. oops i ment to tpye .. help ..

Only cos you refuse to be honest abtou the truth about motorsport.
It's an opiate for the masses (NASCAR) and a playground for the rich and hope-to-be-famous (F1, Le Mans, etc)
In the middle is the Clubman motorsport which is there for pure ego, personal and selfish enjoyment.

Selfish and happy to my part in motorsport coz I'm important to me
But I dont' try to wrap it up in anything other than for my enjoymetn and advancement !!!!

yeah mate i'm in awe & permit me pls to admire from a (long) distance and like I said the pills in the cupboard but whateva ya reckon