why do people who dont like vtec ... dont like vtec?

[KnifeEdge_2K1]

ok most critics quote the lack of low end torque, but vtec doesnt neccesarily hurt low speed torque, on the contrary it has the same if not more torque then engiens of similar specifications which dont have vtec (or a similar system)

the reason why most vtec cars have crappy ass low end torque is the fact those engines are designed with high power high rpm operations in mind (where vtec gives the most gains) meaning large bore and short stroke, the short stroke is what hurts low end torque, not the vtec system itself

now i ask again why do people who dont like vtec ... not like it ?? i cant think of any possible reason ...

[The_Canuck]

Umm i like Vtec but its because of fanboys that some other people might not like Vtec.

[coolieman1220]

v-tec is just a name, many car manufactors have it just diffenre names. double vanos, vvti. its simple proces of moving cams. honda has a good system of it. but it sucks at low RPM, its loud and it won't work in a heavy car. also yeah the fanboys

[KnifeEdge_2K1]

v-tec is just a name, many car manufactors have it just diffenre names. double vanos, vvti. its simple proces of moving cams. honda has a good system of it. but it sucks at low RPM, its loud and it won't work in a heavy car. also yeah the fanboys

vtec and vvti-L are the only systems which combine cam phasing and cam changing in one system

all others are one or the other

as my first post says, vtec DOESNT suck at low rpm, the whole point of variable valve timing systems and changing the cam profiles is you can have a regular profile at low rpm to improve low speed breathing and mixing for torque, and a profile for high rpm with high lift, long duration, and large overlap
the reason why most vtec engines dont have low speed punch is cuz they have a small stroke which allows higher redline rpms, this has the effect of lowering torque, but due to a larger rev range you can make each gear shorter which increases torque at the wheels

[teatako]

the problem with vtec is that its like a switch instead of being infintely variable like say, porsche´s variocam plus. but then they are selling it on civics and stuff so its gotta be cheaper. that said, i would always take any engine with any variable valve timing system than one without

[Slicks]

the problem with vtec is that its like a switch instead of being infintely variable like say, porsche´s variocam plus.

Bingo.
That and the fanboys. Also seems like a wasted technology using it on little 4 bangers. 180hp-240hp is 180hp-240hp no matter how many liters its coming from.

[bmwpower]

Bingo.
That and the fanboys. Also seems like a wasted technology using it on little 4 bangers. 180hp-240hp is 180hp-240hp no matter how many liters its coming from.

not necessarily...higher engine size tends to have more weight and fuel consumption. I know because Vtecs have high revs may not neccarily be true but if ur not racing keep them at low revs and ur good.

[Slicks]

not necessarily...higher engine size tends to have more weight and fuel consumption. I know because Vtecs have high revs may not neccarily be true but if ur not racing keep them at low revs and ur good.

You plain and simple wrong. Gearing and weight have the most to do with it. Why do you think a 500hp 7L Corvette can better in gas milage on the highway than the S2000? The S2K is so peaky it must use big gearing to make up for it, while the Z06 practically sits at idle pulling along just fine.

[fpv_gtho]

Also seems like a wasted technology using it on little 4 bangers. .

Thats a bit ignorant dont you think?

[Rockefella]

Bingo.
That and the fanboys. Also seems like a wasted technology using it on little 4 bangers. 180hp-240hp is 180hp-240hp no matter how many liters its coming from.

You do understand that not everyone is looking for a late 90's American 'muscle-car' carrying 300+hp out of a blown V8 right?

[Slicks]

You do understand that not everyone is looking for a late 90's American 'muscle-car' carrying 300+hp out of a blown V8 right?

Yeah, and even less people are looking for special olympics kind of performance either.

[KnifeEdge_2K1]

Bingo.
That and the fanboys. Also seems like a wasted technology using it on little 4 bangers. 180hp-240hp is 180hp-240hp no matter how many liters its coming from.

the number of cylinders has little effect on power output, i can easily name some 4 cylinder engines that put out more power then v6s or even some v8s

and specific output DOES matter, if you're into racing, the class you're in is often dictaed by engine size, so a 200hp 2L engine is much better then a 200hp 3L engine, and a smaller engine can be placed in a smaller vehicle which means lower weight, a crucial factor in performance

this is why an s2000 which only has 240hp can outperform say a 350z which has 40more horses

you could argue that well the engines are so small their potential is far below that of a bigger displacement engine with less techy stuff. and you'd be right, displacement is king when you're talking about ultimate power, but i'd still rather have an engine which already has vtec, and 4 valves per cylinder, then a big block v8 which doesnt, as you can easily increase displacment by boring the engine, or going for forced induction, but it's nearly impossible to add a variable timing system or 4 valves per cylinder onto an engine which wasnt designed with it

[Slicks]

the number of cylinders has little effect on power output, i can easily name some 4 cylinder engines that put out more power then v6s or even some v8s

Would those 4 cylinders happen to be turbocharged or from the same year as the V6 or V8?

and specific output DOES matter, if you're into racing, the class you're in is often dictaed by engine size, so a 200hp 2L engine is much better then a 200hp 3L engine, and a smaller engine can be placed in a smaller vehicle which means lower weight, a crucial factor in performance

Smaller dispalcement does NOT mean smaller engine! For god sakes! Ill use this comparison AGAIN. The Northstar is 4.4L, while the LS7 is 7L, and you guessed it, the LS7 is SMALLER, and LIGHTER.
HP/L is still irrelivent when it comes to comparisons, thats what Im getting at.

this is why an s2000 which only has 240hp can outperform say a 350z which has 40more horses

No, weight and gearing is why, not displacement.

you could argue that well the engines are so small their potential is far below that of a bigger displacement engine with less techy stuff. and you'd be right, displacement is king when you're talking about ultimate power, but i'd still rather have an engine which already has vtec, and 4 valves per cylinder, then a big block v8 which doesnt, as you can easily increase displacment by boring the engine, or going for forced induction, but it's nearly impossible to add a variable timing system or 4 valves per cylinder onto an engine which wasnt designed with it

Well for starters, OHV engines are now comming out with VVT. There are also kits for OHC concersions. And as I said before X amount of power is X amount of power, no matter where its coming from. And if a small block V8 is going to be cheaper, more powerful, have much greater potential, and be barley larger and heavier than a peaky 4cylinder than the answer should be clear.

[KnifeEdge_2K1]

Would those 4 cylinders happen to be turbocharged or from the same year as the V6 or V8?

Smaller dispalcement does NOT mean smaller engine! For god sakes! Ill use this comparison AGAIN. The Northstar is 4.4L, while the LS7 is 7L, and you guessed it, the LS7 is SMALLER, and LIGHTER.
HP/L is still irrelivent when it comes to comparisons, thats what Im getting at.

No, weight and gearing is why, not displacement.

Well for starters, OHV engines are now comming out with VVT. There are also kits for OHC concersions. And as I said before X amount of power is X amount of power, no matter where its coming from. And if a small block V8 is going to be cheaper, more powerful, have much greater potential, and be barley larger and heavier than a peaky 4cylinder than the answer should be clear.

not turbocharged, and from the same era
the effect from engine config is mainly in that of smoothness, an v8 of the same displacement does not have any more potential then an I4 of the same size, true, the v8 could probably rev a little bit more then the I4 considering the shorter conrods and smaller pistons but when talking about engines in the 2L and below bracket this difference is negligible

yes smaller displacement DOES equal smaller engine when all others are equal, obviously there would be one or two rare cases which dont follow the rule but in general a 2L engine is smaller then a 4L engine

and i already proved why Hp/L IS important in comparisons, if you intend on doing any sort of racing, be it on the track, autocross, engine size usually dictates what class you're in, and id rather be 240hp in the 2L class then 240HP in the 3L class

there may be kits for those conversions im not saying there arnt any. but do you think any of them has had millions of dollars poured into it's development like honda's ?? why do a conversion which takes lots of time and money when you can get the same equipment strait from the factory ?? just because honda's engines are usually small doesnt mean the technology cant be applied to a larger engine

[KnifeEdge_2K1]

the problem with vtec is that its like a switch instead of being infintely variable like say, porsche´s variocam plus. but then they are selling it on civics and stuff so its gotta be cheaper. that said, i would always take any engine with any variable valve timing system than one without

porsche's variocam plus is comprable to honda's i-vtec and toyota's vvtl-i
all 3 systems offer continuously variable cam phasing and 2 or 3 stage cam changing
furthermore, porsche's variocam plus is only applied to the intake side same as honda's i-vtec on the rsx type R (which has regular vtec on the exhaust)

that being said, you're right, the regular vtec is like a switch, either a 2 stage or 3 stage switch, but you have to remember that honda's the only manufacturer that offers cam changing systems on even their lowliest cars, and most models in honda's lineup have i-vtec now they're not as performance biased as the one in the type R, but they are being fitted to civics and accords

the point i'm trying to get across is, vtec (and all other variable valve timing and cam changing systems) doesnt have much if any detrimental effects on a car, so why do so many people knock it ??