Who are the 'Bum' drivers in the racing categories?

[Daz27]

Was thinkin bout this topic a little while ago while reading another thread. Who are the duds? The bum drivers that currently are racing, you know, the ones who couldnt drive a poo through an S bend...

My top 3 are:

D Besnard V8SC
R Schumacher F1
A Pizzonia Champcar

What are your's?

[sicilian973-2]

R Schumacher?! he will be a world champion.just give him a better car.

[twinspark]

R Schumacher?! he will be a world champion.just give him a better car.

That I don't believe, and I'm not sure if he'd have ever made it to F1 if it wasn't for his brother, but there's definately worse drivers in F1. I think F1 drivers are pretty good at the moment, Yamamoto might be my candidate as the worst if I had to pick one. But the likes of Yuichi Ide or Alex Yoong were so out of their league that I don't wonder why their not racing in an F1 car any more.

[adrenaline]

My top 3 are:

D Besnard V8SC
R Schumacher F1
A Pizzonia Champcar

What are your's?

David Besnard is a top driver. He is just a victim of poor hardware. First it was FPR (as a brand new team running 3 cars), then WPS (which aren't up to scratch either).

The bum drivers that currently are racing

Do you actually watch V8 Supercars?? Besnard hasn't been driving a V8 since 2005, when he left WPS.


EDIT:

The only real 'bum' driver I can think of in V8s is Andrew Jones. And even then you could argue he has a crappy car.

[kingofthering]

Derrike Cope - a loser who somehow won the Daytona 500 several decades ago. Now he's selling hair growth products and he still races. Plus he gets paid $1 mil USD

[Daz27]

Haha, so I imagined Bessy when he was crashing every five laps at Sandown and Bathurst??? If Bargs and Wilson can get a WPS car in the top 3 in sessions... and Besnard continuously crashes, through his ENTIRE V8 career, how can he not be a Bum???

I don't rate Jones much either. His not a shadow of his uncle.

Ide was way out of his depth... granted, but Sato shouldnt be on the grid either I think.

[adrenaline]

Haha, so I imagined Bessy when he was crashing every five laps at Sandown and Bathurst??? If Bargs and Wilson can get a WPS car in the top 3 in sessions... and Besnard continuously crashes, through his ENTIRE V8 career, how can he not be a Bum???

I don't rate Jones much either. His not a shadow of his uncle.

Ide was way out of his depth... granted, but Sato shouldnt be on the grid either I think.

He is not a full time driver. He ONLY came as a CO-DRIVER for Sandown/Bathurst. It wasn't his car, it wasn't set up solely for him. And it's WPS. Has a WPS car ever won a round? NO.

If David is a dud, tell me how he got to the main game? It's not like he magically got there. There is carting, Formula Ford, Forumla 3 etc etc.

[adrenaline]

This post (From the Aussie forums) might help explain my point about David and poor hardware:

Each car is a totally different beast. Most teams manufacture > 90% of their parts. I think true driver talent depends on the car, and that besnard in fact could be a Lowndes, as long as he is given the right hardware.

Look at Jamie Whincup for example. He is a generally percieved as crap until he joins 888 racing, where he is given a good car and performs. He is no longer so crap

Then look at Mark Winterbottom. He was with a lesser performing team and most people generally saw him as a rubbish driver, as he wasn't getting into the top ten and was a backmarker. Then he switches to FPR and is running THIRD in the championship. Who would have thought that this time last year?

In the case of Lowndes he was given a good car from the beginning of his career. As was Marcos Ambrose. As was James Courtney (2008 = Courtney's championship win)

[Daz27]

Dude, how did Morris get there? How did Thexton get there? Its relatively easy to get to the top of the tree in Aus if you have the resources. Where is he in the Porches? Next to nowhere. I guess you know him personally. Im not sayen hes a bad person, Im sayen he cannot drive a V8.

[Daz27]

Or OVERDRIVES.

[adrenaline]

Dude, how did Morris get there? How did Thexton get there? Its relatively easy to get to the top of the tree in Aus if you have the resources. Where is he in the Porches? Next to nowhere. I guess you know him personally. Im not sayen hes a bad person, Im sayen he cannot drive a V8.

It's not easy at all to get to the main game V8s these days. No way. Especially if you are after a decent team. (and BTW, Mark debuted in the (flawed) Ford Factory team) I don't expect him to be anywhere in a new category for him, in his debut year. This time last year you could argue that Mark Winterbottom was crap. See the difference when you give him a good car?

Look at the teams he has been in. FPR (as a new team) where not even CRAIG LOWNDES could get anywhere. Then WPS, who have never had a round win (or maybe even a race win) in their short existence.

Do you dispute the fact that if you put him in an SBR or 888 Falcon, he would perform just as Jamie and Mark have recently?

[Daz27]

Hey if you have the resources behind you its easy as to get into the main game.
Besnard and Ambrose debued in the same cars at the same time. Car #4 was fast, very, car #9 was off the track alllll the time. Ambrose is headed for Nascar Busch next year. Besnard is headed for the Porsche cup again somewhere around midfield. Hmm. Wonder who went further. Considering they started in the big league at the exact same time....

[motorsportnerd]

Look at the teams he has been in. FPR (as a new team) where not even CRAIG LOWNDES could get anywhere. Then WPS, who have never had a round win (or maybe even a race win) in their short existence.

Do you dispute the fact that if you put him in an SBR or 888 Falcon, he would perform just as Jamie and Mark have recently?

Craig Lowndes won FPR's first race - Phillip Island in 2003 (admittedly that was a bit of a freak win). Also got 2nds in 2003 and 2004 with FPR at Bathurst and generally put the car much further up the grid than it had any right being. He comprehensively outperformed his team-mates, Glen Seton (which may have help to prematurely end Seton's career - he's a great steerer, just not quite as quick as Lowndes) and Besnard. The absolute cream of the crop drivers will always perform well even given crap cars. Look at Skaife back in 1996/7 prior to joining HRT. He had an absolute dog of a Gibson Motorsport Commodore that was virtually unsponsored - he put that car further up the grid than it had any right to be.
I'm not convinced Besnard would be a front-runner even given an HRT car or a Triple 888 car. After all, as Daz mentioned, he had a front-running Stone Brothers car and couldn't match his then team mate Ambrose. That's not to say that Besnard is a crap driver. I'd rate him a solid second stringer. Certainly good enough to win the Development series and be a co-driver in a Level 1 car in the main game. Maybe even deserves a main game seat. But he's not in Lowndes' league, or for that matter at Winterbottom's or Winchup's level. Besnard can be fast, but he's just not consistent enough. Perhaps he needs more time. Similar to Dumbrell. Except Dumbrell has managed to match Richards (who's one of the top steerers) plenty of times - which shows his capabilities.
So, I think your both wrong about Besnard - he's a middle weight. Not top league, but not a bum steerer either.

[fpv_gtho]

Dude, how did Morris get there? How did Thexton get there? Its relatively easy to get to the top of the tree in Aus if you have the resources. Where is he in the Porches? Next to nowhere. I guess you know him personally. Im not sayen hes a bad person, Im sayen he cannot drive a V8.

Morris leaves me wondering quite often what the hell is he doing. PMM as an engineering department are pretty good, but i think anyone of the young guys who have shown potential could be making alot better use of that seat.

[Monty_Burns]

Thexton......he started that juice company,,,,I think he bought his way in. I think his best result was about a 15th at Bathurst. I cant forget that time Greg Murphy just SMASHED him straight off the track.....I think it was Winton '03,,,,or somewhere in that timeframe.