Saddam's lawyer

[crisis]

Apart from redneck's, religious fanatics and people with no clue about what's going on what so ever (usually these three go hand in hand - and share your political party), you are easily the most extreme example I've ever come across. I guess that's an achievement on it's own.

In all fairness to Fleet you should see this mob!
www.ronaldreagan.com
I think you described them in the start of your post.

[Fleet 500]

Well, I agree with the truth. It's when you start throwing in Republican bias that I tend to sway the other way.

But Democratic bias doesn't bother you? Or anti-American bias?

[Fleet 500]

In all fairness to Fleet you should see this mob!
www.ronaldreagan.com
I think you described them in the start of your post.

Oh, yeah... the guys you couldn't effectively debate!

[henk4]

Or anti-American bias?

Fleet, will you ever be able to make a distinction between anti-americanism and critisising America? Furthermore the criticism tries to focus on the activities of the current administration. I very much doubt that Mr. Bush will ever receive the Noble Peace Prize, like Jimmy Carter not so long ago...

[Fleet 500]

Fleet, will you ever be able to make a distinction between anti-americanism and critisising America? Furthermore the criticism tries to focus on the activities of the current administration. I very much doubt that Mr. Bush will ever receive the Noble Peace Prize, like Jimmy Carter not so long ago...

Actually, I was talking about Crisis and his trying to defend Japan.

[Fleet 500]

The constant apologies and excuses you make for your countries worst acts are examples of sickening blind patriotism.

I find sickening your trying to defend the (then enemy) Japan. I think the U.S. was right in using the A-bomb. It's not "blind patriotism," it's my opinion.

See above.

Yeah, see above.

Which they would have done without dropping them according to the military people who knew the facts as opposed to the propaganda the American people were taught for years after so they could sleep at night.

At the cost of how many more lives?

Don’t take that in isolation. The Japanese were defeated according to the military experts of the day. The just needed to surrender.

That was the problem. We've been through all of this before in another thead. The Japanese were not the type to surrender. All of the votes to surrender were needed and they weren't there.

Read the link you expect me to read and you will see that there were Japanese who were prepared to.

Except those three I listed. And without their "yes" vote, Japan couldn't surrender.

Nor was it desirable to make rash decisions killing thousands of innocent people.

Right. President Truman made a "rash" decision without thinking it over.

You said Many may have "believed" the Japanese were ready to surrender, but a few notable high-ranking officials were not.” In response to my question about which US military people believed surrender negotiations were already underway.

War Minister Anami, Army Chief of Staff Umezu and the Navy Chief of Staff Toyoda are JAPANESE. As far as I can ascertain they did not vote to drop the bomb!

I think you misread. What I posted was accurate... those high-ranking officials were not ready to surrender. I don't know why you twisted that into dropping the bomb!

But The Potsdam Proclamation didn’t call for this as you claimed.

The final call was for an unconditional surrender.

So you think that in the end it would have been fair to hold the entire civilian population, who were not involved in any of these acts, responsible by death for the actions of a portion of the Japanese military?
Likewise the brutal war crimes committed by allied forces should justify all of our fiery deaths as well?

I'm saying the Japanese were lucky that the U.S. didn't destroy their entire country.
Yeah, "brutal war crimes" (which ones?). I'll remind you that the Japanese started the whole thing in the first place, but you seem to be one of those "blame America for everything" kind of individuals. Sad.

[Fleet 500]

Gee, I bet the Muslims and non Americans really relish the chance to celebrate and American custom such as this.
Hang on,,,, you think the whole world celebrates thanksgiving don’t you?
Blind patriotism alert!

Hmmm... maybe the U.S. military should treat prisoners like the terrorists do- chop off their fingers and toes, kill them and drag them through the streets... do you like that better? Now you are getting really ridiculous.

In our discussion about the US bombing of Hiroshima you suggested that due to the "brutal treatment of prisoners and all of the suffering the Japanese (soldiers) caused, they were lucky that the U.S. requested only an unconditional surrender and didn't turn Japan into one giant crater."Looks like the terrorists have the same philosophy as you.

Like I said, you are getting ridiculous. Even a vague comaprison to terrorists means you are not living in reality. If terrorists had nuclear weapons, they would have kept bombing Japan (even with a surrender) and attempted to take over the world. Try to be rational.

[Fleet 500]

Naughty naughty. All of my evidence points elsewhere and you have not been able to refute it with anything to support you version of history.

It does? I did post that 3 high-ranking Japanese officials refused to surrender even days after the 1st and 2nd bombings.

I am amazed by those who expect so much of everyone else yet can ignore any transgressions on their own countries part out of blind patriotism.

All right, enough with this "blind patriotism" garbage. Tell me, Crisis, what have you criticized your country about? Or do you have "blind patriotism?"
Iraq invaded Kuwait. The U.S. and coalition countries took action and removed Iraq from country and rules were set up (by the U.N.), including a no-fly zone for Iraq to obey. So stop your whining. I'm getting tired of you defending enemies like Iraq and Japan.

[Fleet 500]

Just because you share a political party and voting preference doesn't mean they share your opinions. Apart from redneck's, religious fanatics and people with no clue about what's going on what so ever (usually these three go hand in hand - and share your political party), you are easily the most extreme example I've ever come across. I guess that's an achievement on it's own.

Extreme! Lol. You are wrong and you know it.
Yeah, I'm sure extreme... supporting the removal of Saddam, the liberation of Iraq & Afghanistan, working toward a democracy for both of those countries and taking terroism seriously and fighting it. Real extreme!

[2ndclasscitizen]

Hmmm... maybe the U.S. military should treat prisoners like the terrorists do- chop off their fingers and toes, kill them and drag them through the streets... do you like that better? Now you are getting really ridiculous.

Like I said, you are getting ridiculous. Even a vague comaprison to terrorists means you are not living in reality. If terrorists had nuclear weapons, they would have kept bombing Japan (even with a surrender) and attempted to take over the world.

Try to be rational.

[Fleet 500]

and a No-flying-except-for-us zone is, sorry, just a stupid idea. isn't the best way to lead is to set by example? of course the Iraqi's are going to fight back - the US was in THEIR airspace!

The no-fly zone was created by the U.S., the U.K., and France to protect humanitarian operations in Northern Iraq and Shiite muslims in the south. What was that "stupid?"

[Fleet 500]

I'm confused, too. Confused as to why Crisis keeps criticizing how the U.S. fought WWII, yet doesn't criticize the country that started the Pacific invasion.

[henk4]

Actually, I was talking about Crisis and his trying to defend Japan.

that is a relatively minor issue. It is your Pavlovian approach that any criticism or questioning of American activities in general is seen as equal to anti-americanism.

[2ndclasscitizen]

I'm confused, too. Confused as to why Crisis keeps criticizing how the U.S. fought WWII, yet doesn't criticize the country that started the Pacific invasion.

Because I don't think the actions of Japanese is at discussion at the moment, more the actions of the US in dropping 2 nuclear weapons, killing hundreds of thousands of innocents, on a country that was nearly at the brink of surrender, and weakened enough for a normal bombing campaign to finish them off.

Japan's actions in WW2 were completely deplorable, but that never justifies the pointless killing of thousands of innocents. An eye for an eye isn't particularly Christian, considering how the US was founded by Christians and its laws are based on Christian values and the current President is a devout member of a quite religious Christian church.

[henk4]

Yeah, I'm sure extreme... supporting the removal of Saddam, the liberation of Iraq & Afghanistan, working toward a democracy for both of those countries and taking terroism seriously and fighting it. Real extreme!

it is not about what you are supporting, it is the way in which you think those goals can be best achieved.