Audi A5 (8T) 2007-2015

[IBrake4Rainbows]

So will companies like Ford, Vauxhall/Opel etc start rebranding their mid size hatchbacks "sportbacks"?

sorry, but there is little new about this size/type of vehicle.

[Ferrer]

So will companies like Ford, Vauxhall/Opel etc start rebranding their mid size hatchbacks "sportbacks"?

sorry, but there is little new about this size/type of vehicle.

This reminds me more of the old Saabs, rather than modern D-segment hatches like the Mondeo or the Laguna, which anyway seem to be disappearing a bit.

[IBrake4Rainbows]

They're still there, and being sold quite well I can imagine.

This doesn't remind me of a Saab at all. it's nowhere near quirky enough, and I can't see you looking good driving one while in a black turtleneck....

[LeonOfTheDead]

The Mondeo and the Laguna sell well only in estate version, sedan are disappearing.
Didn't see enough Insignia to say if it was the "hatch" or the standard sedan.

If this was an Opel or a whatever you may prefer, it would have been called "Audi A4 5 door" as opposed to the standard 4 door A4 we are used too.

Why Audi has to style all its cars to be identical?

[henk4]

And a big "thank you" goes to Renault, that gave us the R16 in the mid-sixties....

[IBrake4Rainbows]

Thats exactly my point, Henk.

They're just a 5 door hatch version of the sedan, why the big kerfuffle?

Leon, they style them the same because it's a very well trained family of designers who infuse the same sorts of design details in every car. Boring? probably, but certainly adds a level of sheen to the entire range, no?

[LeonOfTheDead]

Thats exactly my point, Henk.

They're just a 5 door hatch version of the sedan, why the big kerfuffle?

Leon, they style them the same because it's a very well trained family of designers who infuse the same sorts of design details in every car. Boring? probably, but certainly adds a level of sheen to the entire range, no?

Not really I think.
All BMWs are distinguishably recognazible as BMWs. So Alfas, or Citroens, Pugs, Porches, Ferraris, Jags, Lamboghinis... the list is infinite.
On the other hand an Audi A4 is very similar to this A5 Sportback, not really less round of an A6, which isn't much smaller than an A8. And all with the same face.
If I was to buy an A4 it could be cool, I have the small car, but it looks like the big one. If I had an A8, I would be pissed. Or maybe no, because since I bought it, I probably couldn't care less of the style. that said, why to buy an A8 in first place is beyond me.

[henk4]

next will be the A5 Sportback Allroad, and since the BMW GT has been launched, the A6 Sportback Quattro Allroad is next in line.

[IBrake4Rainbows]

Thats the thing - Audi's are proportional, taut and teutonic in their form languages. it's rigid because there isn't a whole lot of room to go anywhere within that language.

BMW in particular allows for much deviation on a theme, but can you say the results are better? and furthermore, there are rigid parts of BMW design (kidney grilles, dual headlamp clusters, etc.)

Every company does that sort of design - the top models filter down into the lower classes, thats why they're called "halo" models.

[LeonOfTheDead]

Thats the thing - Audi's are proportional, taut and teutonic in their form languages. it's rigid because there isn't a whole lot of room to go anywhere within that language.

BMW in particular allows for much deviation on a theme, but can you say the results are better? and furthermore, there are rigid parts of BMW design (kidney grilles, dual headlamp clusters, etc.)

Every company does that sort of design - the top models filter down into the lower classes, thats why they're called "halo" models.

I don't think that's the case with Audi, which is why I don't like it (one of the reasons...).
Reventòn's style is evident in Lamborghini's present line-up, but they don't all like it.
The C-Klasse always takes its design language from the S-Klasse, but it's proportionally different.
While a 3 Series got with the restyling some bits and bites from other more recent BMWs, it can't be remotely confused for a 7 Series, no matter from which gen, no matter from which point of view.
I wouldn't call the A8 an halo car either, it's just the bigger they have, I can't see a single appealing thing in it. It's not sporty (the present S8 has never been positively reviewed), it's not as high tech as the S or the 7, or the Lexus LS, it's not as elegant as an XJ or a Quattroporte, it's just an Audi.

And that's what I think about the whole Audi's line-up.
The only way I can honestly describe their cars is being their version of something already existing. Not meaning they didn't invent something and others did, just that their cars don't have a specific personality, something recognizable, something to declare their identity out of the badge.
And yes, I think the same of the R8, regardless of how well it performs, that's not my point.
They used to be the understated German luxury cars as opposed to the luxurious MBs and sporty BMWs, but lately they went more showy, and lost this aspect too.

Apart from personal taste, what distinguish an Audi from another car/brand?

[whiteballz]

Apart from personal taste, what distinguish an Audi from another car/brand?

A massive history of understeer? fanatics that froth at the mouth when you mention a wrong fact, engineers that love putting engines in the wrong place (infront of the axle) and that massive grille.

[LeonOfTheDead]

A massive history of understeer? fanatics that froth at the mouth when you mention a wrong fact, engineers that love putting engines in the wrong place (infront of the axle) and that massive grille.

A pack of Brownies for you Sir.

[IBrake4Rainbows]

I don't think that's the case with Audi, which is why I don't like it (one of the reasons...).

Reventòn's style is evident in Lamborghini's present line-up, but they don't all like it.

The surface language is what's key there. there is a lineage and pureness of form that follows each new Lamborghini design. and how can you say all Lambo's don't look the same, they're all the same shape FFS?!

The C-Klasse always takes its design language from the S-Klasse, but it's proportionally different.

Again a matter of surface language. each range of Mercedes cars has their own trademarks (4 headlights on the E Class, for instance), and I don't think the proportions are that different, the rise of the beltline, the flares over the wheel arches.....

While a 3 Series got with the restyling some bits and bites from other more recent BMWs, it can't be remotely confused for a 7 Series, no matter from which gen, no matter from which point of view.

The 7 is an interesting case. because it's always been bigger the proportions are never going to be mistaken with a smaller BMW, thats for sure. BMW's new design wave has created huge upheavel in the ability for differentiation. But much of that is to do with the large time differences between the releases - the 7 is released before the 3 in a model cycle.

I wouldn't call the A8 an halo car either, it's just the bigger they have, I can't see a single appealing thing in it. It's not sporty (the present S8 has never been positively reviewed), it's not as high tech as the S or the 7, or the Lexus LS, it's not as elegant as an XJ or a Quattroporte, it's just an Audi.

It's the height of good taste and subtlety. well, in a world of E65 7 series and Japanese S-Classes, it is.

It's also recognisable to the general public as a luxury vehcile, something you cannot say of the Lexus. the new XJ is not an elegant vehicle, and the old one basically looks old.

It's the German executive saloon to have when a BMW is too sporting and you're not old enough for a Mercedes Benz. Don't let a personal bias speak for how everyone thinks.

And that's what I think about the whole Audi's line-up.
The only way I can honestly describe their cars is being their version of something already existing. Not meaning they didn't invent something and others did, just that their cars don't have a specific personality, something recognizable, something to declare their identity out of the badge.

They're recognised for quality and consistency. you could say the same about the Japanese - they've never done anything original in their life, but simply study and copy what has gone before. which I think is a somewhat unfair generalisation.

Audi were pioneers in the field of 4WD adaptation in road cars, Aerodynamics (yeah, fight me on that, whatever) and in recent times the TT, A6 and A8 have all been unbelievable in their design, implementation and cool factor. the A8 in black is a cool vehicle, especially to the car unititiated.

And yes, I think the same of the R8, regardless of how well it performs, that's not my point.
They used to be the understated German luxury cars as opposed to the luxurious MBs and sporty BMWs, but lately they went more showy, and lost this aspect too.

They're showier, certainly. but only in proportion to their previous vehicles.

compared to their counterparts, they're positively restraint.

Apart from personal taste, what distinguish an Audi from another car/brand?

An Appreciation for the finer details of car design - shutlines, interior quality & fitment of plastics. ambience, what you touch, how it works.

It's analytical and studied, certainly, but the best things in life often are based upon seeing what your competitors do and coming up with something better.

you speak of refinement of these details as a bad thing - that suddenly because they might not be on the zeitgeist of modern design they're lacking relevance. I disagree. out of the three (BMW, Mercedes, Audi) BMW is losing touch with normality in terms of exterior design, and while efficient dynamics is a great leap forward in thinking, it only works if the cars are something you'd want to buy.

Mercedes have lost their understated elegance thing but they're still technical and an R&D based company.

While Audi, while not being groundbreaking, is perhaps refining the technology they have for the best purpose.

You ask others to take out their personal preference, but I think the question of Audi is somewhat biased on your own account. as you've stated.

[Ferrer]

A massive history of understeer? fanatics that froth at the mouth when you mention a wrong fact, engineers that love putting engines in the wrong place (infront of the axle) and that massive grille.

Don't forget the dead steering and stupid ride.

EDIT I think Audis are great for people who aren't interested in cars, they are great consumers goods in a way. But if you like to drive better look somewhere else.

[LeonOfTheDead]

IB4R, I'm surely biased about Audi, what I didn't write there, is that for how much I think Audi is under performing as a brand (in my book) compared to BMW and MB, I don't like them either. BMWs aren't working design wise, and their technical superiority seems to be diluted by marketing stunts trying to back good achievements but perhaps not as ground breaking as they could have been/used to be/they wanted to be.
MB is going in the wrong direction in the style compartment, as their cars still look massive and big, but lost the "grandpa" presence and don't inspire a sort of respect and reverence when you are in front of them.
Still, I don't think a C looks proportionally like a smaller S, and I don't think any of the 7 are distinguishable from a 3 just for the dimensions. Really different cars not only at a first distracted glance.
That's not the case of an X-Type and of an XJ, which to the average audience are just a copy, resize, and paste.

Besides, Audi are bought by old people over here, and Lexus is considered a luxury brand. About the XJ, I was considering the old one, which may lood old (to an enthusiast), but elegance nonetheless.
As an additional note, Audis are also generally purchase by people who don't know a damn thing about cars in general, let alone what Audi did in the past or even right now, how many times it won at Le Mans, or what are doing its competitors.
It's a choice for those who don't want to choice. Speaking out of experience of people I know.

I don't think Audi has a superiority in quality or attention to details either, not more than other brands really. Since the previous gen A6 their capability in penning aerodynamic cars has been obvious, but if that means such a slow and equalized evolution of the style, I guess something isn't working (again, in my book).

That's the same reason for blaming the 3rd gen Prius or even the new Insight. Both those vehicles are made to be overall as efficient as possible, still that's not the only shape to achieve a good aerodynamic.
I can see the Prius going for an evolution of the previous design, but not Honda.

Back to Audi, when I look at their interiors, they jusy look like the (good) base infrastructure on which other brand infuse their touches, stuff, gizmos and other things.
Surely this is recognizable as an Audi thing as much as the exterior design, but again I think it's a product for those who are looking for a "premium" car, but they are not, generally of course, even at the first level of being an enthusiast.
It's not a crime, but in this way Audi is becoming, still in my book, just a company, not a car company.