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Thread: Fiat 500 Abarth Scoop

  1. #1
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    Fiat 500 Abarth Scoop

    I absolutely love this, i want one so bad.

    Ferrer, this is a retro car you should buy

    I really love this, and it's being tuned at the 'Ring, so should be a hoot to drive. Can't wait

    Courtesy of: Car Magazine Online
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    Last edited by Street_Dreamer; 05-22-2007 at 11:31 AM. Reason: Spelling Error

  2. #2
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    It's a fine car, altough we still don't know really anything. But it's retro and I'm boycotting Fiat, so despite being fine it's actually rubbish... if that makes any sense.
    Lack of charisma can be fatal.
    Visca Catalunya!

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ferrer View Post
    It's a fine car, altough we still don't know really anything. But it's retro and I'm boycotting Fiat, so despite being fine it's actually rubbish... if that makes any sense.
    I told you not to boycott retro yet.

    You spoke too soon.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by NSXType-R View Post
    I told you not to boycott retro yet.

    You spoke too soon.
    I'm not bycotting retro, I'm boycotting Fiat.

    About retro every day I like it less and less...
    Last edited by McReis; 05-23-2007 at 07:48 AM.
    Lack of charisma can be fatal.
    Visca Catalunya!

  5. #5
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    wait... people think this cheap piece of crap looks good? I will never understand EU styling....
    I dont if I'll make home tonight
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ferrer View Post
    I'm not bycotting retro, I'm boycotting Fiat.

    Sbout retro every day I like it less and less...
    Explain yourself, you mad person.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revo View Post
    Explain yourself, you mad person.
    Look at the Lancia line up. Look at the Delta HPE concept. Look at the Fulvia concept. Pretty self explanatory I think...
    Lack of charisma can be fatal.
    Visca Catalunya!

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ferrer View Post
    Look at the Lancia line up. Look at the Delta HPE concept. Look at the Fulvia concept. Pretty self explanatory I think...
    Fine.

    Thesis. Brilliant luxury car.
    Ypsilon. Brilliant city car.
    New Delta HPE. It is not even out yet, so we really don't know anything about it .
    Lybra. Weird car. Never understood it.
    Rest of the rebadged lineup is rubbish, no point of discussing them.

    I do agree that Fiat could do better with Lancia, but to boycott everything Fiat?
    These are very strong words, you'd better use them carefully.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revo View Post
    Fine.

    Thesis. Brilliant luxury car.
    Ypsilon. Brilliant city car.
    New Delta HPE. It is not even out yet, so we really don't know anything about it .
    Lybra. Weird car. Never understood it.
    Rest of the rebadged lineup is rubbish, no point of discussing them.

    I do agree that Fiat could do better with Lancia, but to boycott everything Fiat?
    These are very strong words, you'd better use them carefully.
    Look at where was Lancia before Fiat bought Alfa Romeo in 1986. It was a very successful brand. It had a good and coherent line up which had properly developped cars, like the Delta or the Thema. Furthermore the works rally team was a successful operation. And it sold over 300,000 cars a year, which interestingly it's the (rather optimistic) target now.

    But then as has been said Fiat bought Alfa Romeo and problems started for Lancia. Motorsport activities ceased, interesting cars were axed and left without a replacement. Meanwhile a lot of money was poured into Alfa Romeo. Fiat says that Alfa Romeo is the sporty division and Lancia the luxury one. Fair enough. But erasing all traces of sportiness at Lancia simply isn't right. I may agree that Lancia isn't about the Delta HF Integrale, but a proper Lancia like the Aurelia had sporty versions.

    Despite that Lancia has been turned into nothing more than rebadged Fiats (Thesis aside) and cars like the Ypsilon simply don't do Lancia justice. Lancia was once considered the pinnacle of automotive technology, with innovations like the monocoque construction, the first production V6, transaxle gearbox or independent rear suspension arrangements. The Ypsilon has saved Lancia from the ax and might a very good city car but it simply isn't a Lancia.

    I understand that Fiat has had a very tough time recently, and I understand too that with the sales levels of Lancia they can't afford to run a dedicated engineering department. But between Alfa Romeo of exclusivity (Premium platform and GM four cylinders) and rebadged Fiats there's a balance which could be achieved. And now that Fiat seems to be exiting the very dangerous situation it was in nothing seems to have changed. The HPE will be nothing more than a streched Bravo and to make matters worse look at the styling. I was expecting an elegant, good looking shooting break, and all we get is half-arsed attempt at a Lancia Altea with a barroque grille.

    The Fulvia was the perfect example of what the modern Lancia should stand for. Elegant but sporty with a degree of coolness few car makers can achieve. And yet all Fiat does is ignore the huge heritage Lancia has. Many manufacturers would crawl across broken glass to have it. Probably Lancia would be better sold to anyone who actually can care about it. We (and include myself) always criticise the Porsche Cayenne. Well in some ways I don't know what's worse if the Cayenne or the management of Lancia by Fiat in the last 20 years.

    Sorry for the rant, but I was very angry. Now I don't care, I just boycott Fiat and that's it.
    Lack of charisma can be fatal.
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    Good one Ferrer. I agree with every point you brought up. However brilliant or not, Ypsilon and Thesis are rubbish IMO. They're trying to make them very dintinguishable, but they only turn out to be super niche, weird looking bozos. And i hate Fiat coming out with Croma, Stilo, not replacing Coupe, and the new Grande Punto which IMO is a serious identity crisis, a Jap esque interior with a touch of VAG, but wants to be a budget car, hence you can see very 'serious' german designs (air con vents etc) with very budgeted plastics which IMO just doesn't go together, and the headlight clusters, they're big, just for the sake of styling, you would laugh at the small tiny bulb it had in that lizard head, not even a projector headlam or whatsoever. The car's huge, but interior space wasn't really there, and it's one tall, great looking identity crisis teenager which wears fake tag heuers and the cheapest Nike shoes he can find at the flea market.

    However deep down, I have this soft spot for Fiats, for i remember how brilliant they used to be, and how they dominate our streets back in the 1990s - 1997/8 (Punto MKI/II) and i love Alfa Romeo.

    But the dissapointment from Croma, Stilo, Grande Punto just really made me angry bout them so much (cos i used to love them so much)... and Alfa Romeo, thou the 159 looks brilliant, the overtly used Brera front styling just freakin spoil it; and lastly - WHY BRING THE REAR DOOR HANDLES DOWN?? That's a solid proof that they regreted it on 156 and 147.... WHY WHY WHY?

    8C Competizione ....... k i can shut up and look at it for forever thou.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ingolstadt View Post
    Good one Ferrer. I agree with every point you brought up. However brilliant or not, Ypsilon and Thesis are rubbish IMO. They're trying to make them very dintinguishable, but they only turn out to be super niche, weird looking bozos. And i hate Fiat coming out with Croma, Stilo, not replacing Coupe, and the new Grande Punto which IMO is a serious identity crisis, a Jap esque interior with a touch of VAG, but wants to be a budget car, hence you can see very 'serious' german designs (air con vents etc) with very budgeted plastics which IMO just doesn't go together, and the headlight clusters, they're big, just for the sake of styling, you would laugh at the small tiny bulb it had in that lizard head, not even a projector headlam or whatsoever. The car's huge, but interior space wasn't really there, and it's one tall, great looking identity crisis teenager which wears fake tag heuers and the cheapest Nike shoes he can find at the flea market.

    However deep down, I have this soft spot for Fiats, for i remember how brilliant they used to be, and how they dominate our streets back in the 1990s - 1997/8 (Punto MKI/II) and i love Alfa Romeo.

    But the dissapointment from Croma, Stilo, Grande Punto just really made me angry bout them so much (cos i used to love them so much)... and Alfa Romeo, thou the 159 looks brilliant, the overtly used Brera front styling just freakin spoil it; and lastly - WHY BRING THE REAR DOOR HANDLES DOWN?? That's a solid proof that they regreted it on 156 and 147.... WHY WHY WHY?

    8C Competizione ....... k i can shut up and look at it for forever thou.
    I can't extend now since I have to go, but I absolutely love the Thesis. It's the only proper Lancia from the range, and the last of a line.
    Lack of charisma can be fatal.
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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by digitalcraft View Post
    wait... people think this cheap piece of crap looks good? I will never understand EU styling....
    We will never understand the usual american bad taste either.
    Money can't buy you friends, but you do get a better class of enemy.

  13. #13
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    touche
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    To Ferrer,

    everything you said about Lancia and its current embarrassing position in Fiat Group is very true, I'd just like to add few thoughts.

    Ironically, huge problem for Lancia today is its heritage. To the majority of car buyers (at least in this part of the world where I live) Lancia is an unknown brand. For the less ignorant, Lancia is remembered for big Martini labels, broken front bumpers, muddy skirts etc. Only hardcore enthusiasts know Lancia as a company who used to make innovative and beautifully engineered cars. Now, imagine yourself as an average car buyer. Would you pay pay a fairly large amount of money for a car that doesn't have a prestigious label nor has any connection to the once glorious past. Nay. You'd have to be an enthusiast to even consider buying anything from current Lancia lineup.

    Your suggestion to break that vicious circle is to inject sportiness into Lancia products. But that would make Lancia biggest rival to Alfa Romeo. There is absolutely no way Fiat managment would let that to happen, they would rather ax Lancia.

    Now, this circle has been going on for at least 15-20 years. I hate to say this, but maybe the biggest strategic mistake of Lancia was its continuous participation in world rally championships in the 1980s and 1990s?

    So, nowadays Lancia sells niche products like Thesis and Ypsilon, both are fantastic cars IMO and well worthy of Lancia badge. And they sell rebadged Fiats as the rest of their lineup, utterly pointless if you'd ask me. However, I'd rather have it this way than the alternative: Lancia being completely forgotten in dusty history books.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Revo View Post
    To Ferrer,

    everything you said about Lancia and its current embarrassing position in Fiat Group is very true, I'd just like to add few thoughts.

    Ironically, huge problem for Lancia today is its heritage. To the majority of car buyers (at least in this part of the world where I live) Lancia is an unknown brand. For the less ignorant, Lancia is remembered for big Martini labels, broken front bumpers, muddy skirts etc. Only hardcore enthusiasts know Lancia as a company who used to make innovative and beautifully engineered cars. Now, imagine yourself as an average car buyer. Would you pay pay a fairly large amount of money for a car that doesn't have a prestigious label nor has any connection to the once glorious past. Nay. You'd have to be an enthusiast to even consider buying anything from current Lancia lineup.

    Your suggestion to break that vicious circle is to inject sportiness into Lancia products. But that would make Lancia biggest rival to Alfa Romeo. There is absolutely no way Fiat managment would let that to happen, they would rather ax Lancia.

    Now, this circle has been going on for at least 15-20 years. I hate to say this, but maybe the biggest strategic mistake of Lancia was its continuous participation in world rally championships in the 1980s and 1990s?

    So, nowadays Lancia sells niche products like Thesis and Ypsilon, both are fantastic cars IMO and well worthy of Lancia badge. And they sell rebadged Fiats as the rest of their lineup, utterly pointless if you'd ask me. However, I'd rather have it this way than the alternative: Lancia being completely forgotten in dusty history books.
    Well the thing is Alfa Romeo's biggest problem is Lancia and Lancia's biggest problem is Alfa Romeo. They've been arch rivals at least since the war ended. When Fiat bough Lancia in 1969 what they did is aim it squarely at Alfa Romeo. But when Fiat bought Alfa Romeo in 1986 Lancia was almost pointless, since both brands fought for the same market. Lancia had worthy cars like the Delta (not the HF versions) and by comparison the 33 was nowhere near as good. And yet for some unkown reason I can't quite understand Fiat decided to pour money into Alfa Romeo, and that money came from the Lancia budget. Then Fiat tried to turn Lancia into a pseudo luxury car brand which sold niche cars. But failure after failure came, the most spectacular being the Thesis, which ironically is the most bespoke Lancia in years. In a way it reminds me of the BL situation of the late 70's, only in this case instead of two brands overlapping, BL had several.

    Lancia simply cannot be understood without sport. Lancia is sport. But it also is many more things. It's elegance. It's comfort. It's luxury. It's engineering at the highest level. It's defenitely different from Alfa Romeo. While Alfa Romeos are red and shouty, Lancias are understated and blue (classic Lancia color is Lancia blu). You argue that the image of the brand is tarnished and in most cases wrong. People only remember the fire spitting Integrales and unfortunately I can only agree. But here comes crucially the Fulvia Concept Car unveiled in 2003 in the Frankfurt Motorshow. It was just perfect. It was in segment of the market not occupied by Alfa Romeo, it was different from an Alfa Romeo and it was so utterly cool the girls next to it were dull by comparison. Think of it as Lancia's 8C, only much cheaper and feasible. Everyday the Fulvia isn't in production is another missed opportunity. Fiat says they want to make Lancia a premium brand. I honestly fail to see how or any improvement made in that direction. The HPE was a huge opportunity, a car to show why the A3 Sportback or the V50 are no match for a proper Lancia. And yet what we get is, as I already said, is a bloody van with bravo mechanicals. While on the other hand the 149 will have unique suspension and (probably) a beautiful body. As a Lancista this is painful.

    Finally I want to talk about two cars you put in the same group, the Thesis and the Ypsilon, which dare I to say are in my opinion completely different. On one hand the Thesis is as Lancia as one can get. Bespoke platform, high tech suspension, lost of cutting edge equipment. A Mercedes-Benz executive once said that if it had been promoted properly they would've considered it a serious rival for the E-class, it is that good. It was probably let down by controvential styling (which I personally quite like), no sporting pretentions whatsoever (where's the Coupe?) and an engine range that was no match for the german executive saloons and aged quickly, despite that it is the true successor to the Flaminia berlina. On the other hand the Ypsilon while it saved Lancia, and we have to be tahnkful for that, but it simply can't be considered a proper Lancia when it's built on an old Mk II Punto platform, has drums in the back and the range of engines is simply pathetic. I can't consider it a Lancia it might be a good cute city car, but I exepct more from a Lancia.

    Sorry for the long post, it's something that probably doesn't interest anybody. Who cares about Lancia these days?
    Lack of charisma can be fatal.
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