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Thread: Maserati Racing Cars History

  1. #61
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    Picture No 4 is not a Brianza body, but a non-original body fitted to chassis no 1124, which is currently being restored to original specification. The body shown was probably fitted just before, or just after the war.

    Maseratinut

  2. #62
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    Maserati 4CS

    Quote Originally Posted by peconga View Post
    What a wealth of knowledge here about pre-war Maserati race cars! I am more familiar with post-war Maserati GT cars, so I need your help in identifying an unknown car which I photographed in September 1974 at the Kruse Brother's Auction in Auburn, Indiana.

    Unfortunately, I have long since lost the program from the auction, and have no other information about the car. I recently contacted Kruse directly, but their records were put into archive long ago (well, it is 34 years ago!). I always thought it was a special bodied Alfa Romeo, since that is what I wrote on the back of the snapshot. But that was years ago and could be a lapse of memory. The photo is too indistinct to make out the badge on the nose, but could be either an Alfa or a Maserati Trident logo.

    Based on the information here, and my quick research elsewhere, I now wonder if it is a 4CS of some sort. The similarity of this unknown car to 4CS #1124 (the Cunningham / Rosso Bianco car) is very striking, but there are also a number of detail differences. There is certainly nothing like it in Orsini & Zagari. Could this be 4CS #1123 before it was re-bodied by Maserati SpA in 1977, and then later by Sean Danaher? Or is it a re-bodied 4CM? Or something else?

    The only thing better than a good mystery, is seeing it solved!

    Cheers!
    Doug alias Peconga
    Boise, Idaho USA
    This is actually chassis number 1124, which came into the UK from Eritrea after the war and was almost certainly re-bodied here at the time. The picture I am sending shows the car competing in the International Prescott Hillclimb on 22nd September 1946.
    Maseratinut
    Last edited by Maseratinut; 06-18-2009 at 12:21 PM. Reason: Sorry, hit the wrong key, the Kruse car is 1114 and NOT 1124

  3. #63
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    Do you know if any of the 1500 cars have survived? I have not seen any of them.
    If you should see a man walking down a crowded street talking aloud to himself, don't run in the opposite direction, but run towards him, because he's a poet. You have nothing to fear from the poet - but the truth.

    (Ted Joans)

  4. #64
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    Maseratinut, thanks for your help!

  5. #65
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    I seem to be having trouble attaching pictures, so her is another attempt to include the pic of 4CS 1114 competing at the International Prescott Meeting in 1946
    Attached Images Attached Images

  6. #66
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    That worked excellently!
    If you should see a man walking down a crowded street talking aloud to himself, don't run in the opposite direction, but run towards him, because he's a poet. You have nothing to fear from the poet - but the truth.

    (Ted Joans)

  7. #67
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    Where are they Now

    Quote Originally Posted by Odin View Post
    Can't find any survivor of the 4CS 1500. Anyone knows something?
    Regards
    Jörg
    This is what I can discover about the existence or otherwise of all the 4CS models:

    1113: 1100cc. Went to the Rome Agency, 6/4/32, possibly for a Mr Tomeucci
    I can find no positive information about this car, but it is NOT the 4CTR referred to in many events. This chassis number does not tally with the
    Mille Miglia records for the 4CTR.

    1114: 1100cc. Went to Mr Silva, the Milan Agency, for the Brianza body to be fitted and shown at the V Salone dell'Automobile, Milan 12-27 April 1932. It was formally consigned to the Agency on 30th June 1932.

    1123; 1100cc. Completed on 16/1/35 and driven away by the new owner, there is some confusion here, the factory shows him as Luigi Bergamini, but the contemporary magazines describe the driver as either Morris or Norris Bergamini. I suspect that Norris is simply a misprint. Bergamini also purchased 4CM 1127 and there is some confusion regarding these two, because the engine of 1127 was replaced by that of 1123. In monoposto form, the car was sold to a man in Australia, it was temporarily imported into England in 1988 and restored as a two-seater and the engine converted to 1500cc.

    1124: 1100cc. Completed 15/2/35 for Scuderia Subalpina and entered in the 1935 Mille Miglia, but failed to finish. Mille Miglia Museum records do not show the chassis number of this car, but since the team only ever owned two 4CS cars and the second was a 1500cc model, there is little doubt about the chassis number of this car. At some stage, possibly post-war the car was fitted with a pretty, but very heavy, pointed tail two seater body and, after this was done, converted to Fiat(?) independent front suspension. After some time in the Cunningham and Kaus collections, the car was sold and is now being restored to original specification.

    1126: 1100cc originally, completed on 15/3/35 for Ettore Bianco. Fitted with a 1500 cc engine and more modern style body by Lurani in 1938. In 1939 the car was sold to a Chinese businessman in Singapore, who sold it again shortly before the Japanese invasion of Malaya. The new owner was tortured and killed by the Kempetai and the car confiscated. It was 'rescued' by a friend then dismantled and buried for the rest of the war. It changed hands again after the war but was never fully restored as so many original parts were missing. I bought its remains in 1969 and restored it over the next 18 years. It is now owned and raced by my son.

    1516: 1500cc. Completed 31/3/33 for Count 'Johnny' Lurani, who fitted a body to his own design. When he was called to serve in the Italian forces, he sold the car to Ippolito Berrone and a new body (by Campari and Sorniotti?) was fitted. The last known appearance of this car was in the Semmering Hillclimb on 24th September 1935. It is not known if it still exists.

    1517: 1500cc. Completed on 24/2/33 for Professor Galeazzi of Rome and the factory specification sheet states that it was fitted with a Zagato body. The pictures in the Orsini/Zagari book describing this chassis number with a Menarini body are incorrect and show Rocco/Filippone in Rocco's 26B 2000. As a matter of interest, the only race number in this event to appear on two Maseratis was no 20, which was allocated to Tuffanelli/ Bertocchi in the 4CTR 1100 in the 1932 race and Strazza/ Baldini in 4CS 1124 in the 1935 race. The last known appearance of 1517 was in the Stelvio hillclimb on 30/8/36. It is not known if it still exists.

    1518: 1100cc, notwithstanding its "15" chassis number. (Trust me, I have a copy of the factory specification sheet.) This car was completed on 7/4/33 for Bepe Tuffanelli. In 1934 it was returned to the factory, the specification sheet for 1520 states "replacing 1518", which suggests that 1520 was a brand new car and not a re-engined and re-numbered example.

    1519: 1500cc. Completed 17/2/34 for Count "Johnny" Lurani. Although Lurani claimed in his book "Racing Round the World" that the Campari and Sornioti body was brand new, it is identical to the body fitted earlier to 1516 and is not the body shown on the car when owned by Berrone. 1519 was eventually sold to Aldo Marazza, who was killed whilst racing a works Maserati 6C. This is another car that is lost without trace.

    1520: 1500 cc. Sold to Ulrich Maag, Hesselberg. 19/6/34 and later to Hans Reusch, who modified it extensively, fitting a 6C engine and Dubonnet IFS.
    This is ostensibly the car featured in the "Schlumph" museum, but there appear to be few, if any genuine Maserati parts other than a 6C engine left on this car. A British collector claims to have collected the discarded parts that still existed and these parts are currently being rebuilt in England.

    1524: 1500cc. Sold to Scuderia Subalpina, 4/4/35 and entered in the 1935 Mille Miglia, where it crashed, killing several spectators. I can find no further records of this car and suspect that it was written off in the accident.

    1529: 1500cc originally, but modified to 1100cc when sold to Franco Bertani by the factory 0n 17/11/36. Last recorded event was a German hillclimb, described in Italian magazines as the "Grand Primio Tedesco della Montagna" on 7/8/37.

    There you go, 40 plus years of research in one simple list!

    Maseratinut

  8. #68
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    and what a labour of love, thanks for that.
    "I find the whole business of religion profoundly interesting, but it does mystify me that otherwise intelligent people take it seriously." Douglas Adams

  9. #69
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    May 2009
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    Menarini bodies

    Do any of you know what the body builder Menarini's badge looked like in the thirties? I have pictures of a 4CS that is supposed to have a Menarini body, but the badge on the driver's door looks suspiciously like a Zagato badge of the period (1932). A picture of an original Menarini badge would solve this problem once and for all!

    Maseratinut

  10. #70
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    This is the best I've been able to find.



    Menarini - WOI Encyclopedia Italia

    Hope it helps.
    Lack of charisma can be fatal.
    Visca Catalunya!

  11. #71
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    Menarini Badge

    Many thanks for putting me on to this, but I wonder if anyone knows when the factory began to use this design and if it has ever been altered. Difficult questions I know, but worht asking!

    Maseratinut

  12. #72
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    very nice

  13. #73
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    May 2009
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    Does anyone know if 4CM 1127 is still around? In my brief histories of the 4CS cars I said that 1127 received the engine of 1123, which I now believe to be wrong! I would love to know the actual numbers stamped on the engine, gearbox and rear axle of 1127 if it still exists.

    I will update my brief histories soon, Even after 40 years of research I have found that much of what I wrote is incorrect!

    Maseratinut

  14. #74
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    Not shure, but I think Marcel Roks sold it some years ago.

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Odin View Post
    Not shure, but I think Marcel Roks sold it some years ago.
    Welcome back....
    "I find the whole business of religion profoundly interesting, but it does mystify me that otherwise intelligent people take it seriously." Douglas Adams

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