The Lotus Elise R vs. the Mini Cooper S JCW.

[:Exige:]

...and by Clubman, do you mean the Countryman...

Very much off topic, but are you at Kent Uni? I'm on a year out at the moment but I'll be at Kent next year. I'm in Canterbury quite alot at the moment anyway because one of my friends goes to Kent, and the temptation of cheap booze on campus is too much to resist

[:Exige:]

cheers. a quick scan of the first link seems to indicate it's mainly the earlier lotus' that are the worst? are those produced in the last 2 years any better?

Oh definitely. The fact that people have managed to get 400bhp out of the new Toyota unit with surprisingly little modification (apart from the mahoosive turbos and forged pistons) as opposed to a very warm 320bhp from the K-series just goes to show the new unit is more reliable. However, the new unit is also heavier and alot more docile .... definitely not as exciting as the Rover K-Series.

But after speaking to various people who race the new Elises/Exiges for a living, overheating is still an issue that plagues the cars more than it does with most other cars. It's a strange car because you have to go fast to keep it cool as it relies on air passing through the radiator, but if you over-do it then the engine generates too much heat. The worst place to be is in slow-moving traffic ... watching the temp gauge slowly rise while in a traffic jam is scary.

[clutch-monkey]

Oh definitely. The fact that people have managed to get 400bhp out of the new Toyota unit with surprisingly little modification (apart from the mahoosive turbos and forged pistons) as opposed to a very warm 320bhp from the K-series just goes to show the new unit is more reliable. However, the new unit is also heavier and alot more docile .... definitely not as exciting as the Rover K-Series.

But after speaking to various people who race the new Elises/Exiges for a living, overheating is still an issue that plagues the cars more than it does with most other cars. It's a strange car because you have to go fast to keep it cool as it relies on air passing through the radiator, but if you over-do it then the engine generates too much heat. The worst place to be is in slow-moving traffic ... watching the temp gauge slowly rise while in a traffic jam is scary.

good to hear.
doesn't sound too diferent to an air cooled 911

[Street_Dreamer]

A BMW-Engined, BMW-Engineered conservatively revving supermini vs a high revving engine renound for catching on fire regularly from a small company based in a warehouse in Hethel. Well done, you've made a completley unfounded comment!

In the Exige I had real fears that it was going to set alight. If you went under 20mph for more than 15 minutes, the radiator in the front clam would start to smoke infront of the windscreen and the cabin temperature would start to get unbearable, as would the smell of burning oil. However, it would have been hard to set alight seeing as everytime it rained water would gush into the cabin through the gaping window seals ... I now know what it is like to be incontinent

You'd be surprised mate, don't be ignorant about the reliability problems of the Mini. My brother had one, it ate clutches among not being very reliable in other areas. His ECU and head gasket (i think the gasket) were screwed 2 months out of warranty forcing him to sell the car as he couldn't start it, even when he tried jumping it. A lot of people that buy minis expect it to be solid, but it isn't.

New Lotus are much more reliable as well, with Toyota engines and better, more reliable mechanicals.

[:Exige:]

You'd be surprised mate, don't be ignorant about the reliability problems of the Mini. My brother had one, it ate clutches among not being very reliable in other areas. His ECU and head gasket (i think the gasket) were screwed 2 months out of warranty forcing him to sell the car as he couldn't start it, even when he tried jumping it. A lot of people that buy minis expect it to be solid, but it isn't.

New Lotus are much more reliable as well, with Toyota engines and better, more reliable mechanicals.

And you're basing your facts on just one car? Reliability rankings for 2004 - Autos - MSNBC.com ... 13/100 cars had problems, which is really rather good.

Now go to the Lotus section of the PistonHeads forums and look at the percentage of owners who are having problems on there. I can guarantee you that 75% of the owners have had problems with their car within the first 6 months of ownership. This isn't a made-up percentage; I was told this by my local Lotus dealer of all people!

I'm not saying the Mini is reliable ... it's reliability is completley average. I'm saying that the Lotus is hell of a lot less reliable.

Also yes, the Toyota engined Elises are more reliable. But you could also say that the TVR Tuscan is more reliable than the TVR V8S ... that still doesn't make it a reliable car

[:Exige:]

good to hear.
doesn't sound too diferent to an air cooled 911

Yeah, except in an Exige you're just scared in a traffic jam ... I bet in your 911 you're scared all of the time! Scary cars eh? All fun and games

[Suka]

No, in a classic piece of historical abuse, BMW applied the Clubman name to the countryman version...

Thats what i was getting at...

[Ferrer]

and aren't the mini engines from mexico..

They were, the new ones are half french half german.

You'd be surprised mate, don't be ignorant about the reliability problems of the Mini. My brother had one, it ate clutches among not being very reliable in other areas. His ECU and head gasket (i think the gasket) were screwed 2 months out of warranty forcing him to sell the car as he couldn't start it, even when he tried jumping it. A lot of people that buy minis expect it to be solid, but it isn't.

New Lotus are much more reliable as well, with Toyota engines and better, more reliable mechanicals.

Our old Cooper S has been completely reliable. 3 years and 73,000km and no problem at all.

[baddabang]

Mini. I can't fit in an Elise.

[Street_Dreamer]

And you're basing your facts on just one car? Reliability rankings for 2004 - Autos - MSNBC.com ... 13/100 cars had problems, which is really rather good.

Now go to the Lotus section of the PistonHeads forums and look at the percentage of owners who are having problems on there. I can guarantee you that 75% of the owners have had problems with their car within the first 6 months of ownership. This isn't a made-up percentage; I was told this by my local Lotus dealer of all people!

I'm not saying the Mini is reliable ... it's reliability is completley average. I'm saying that the Lotus is hell of a lot less reliable.

Also yes, the Toyota engined Elises are more reliable. But you could also say that the TVR Tuscan is more reliable than the TVR V8S ... that still doesn't make it a reliable car

Actually no, i know more people who have bought Minis and have had to take their cars to get problems fixed within 1 month of delivery. I'm not saying the Lotus is as reliable as an Audi or a Lexus, i'm just saying the Mini's not reliable, so that's not exactly something you can put in favour of it.

Aston Martin's are pretty unreliable (from what i've heard) but people still buy them because they're no so unreliable that the they will be picked over a less fun/special, slightly more reliable car.

The Elise/Exige might not be reliable, but the Mini isn't either and i'd take the Elise over it as if i wanted a (relatively) unreliable car, i'd much rather have one which would make me feel better and be better to drive.

[:Exige:]

The Elise/Exige might not be reliable, but the Mini isn't either and i'd take the Elise over it as if i wanted a (relatively) unreliable car, i'd much rather have one which would make me feel better and be better to drive.

Have you not been reading anything anyone has been writing? The Mini doesn't have bad reliability ... if you call 13/100 cars having faults unreliable then obviously the whole car industry is unsatisfactory for you. If all of your friends just so happen to have bad Mini's then it's their fault because they're obviously buying them from somewhere dodgy. Afterall, 87% of other Mini drivers haven't had a problem with theirs.

And the Elise is in a completley different league when it comes to reliability ... 13/100 cars failing as opposed to atleast 75/100 cars failing ... that's almost 800% more unreliable! The Mini isn't unreliable ... it's reliability is average and exactly what you'd expect for a £12k super-mini.

Of course, I think I know why some people think the Mini is unreliable. The average Lotus driver is a man who when his car breaks down, fixes it.

The average Mini driver however is a metrosexual male who whenever his car breaks down complains and whines until someone fixes it for him.

Welcome to the 21st Century people

[NicFromLA]

For everyday the Mini no doubt, for blast in a twisty country road the Lotus.

By the way doesn't the latest Mini have like 210bhp or so?

The previous JCW had around 207hp, the new one is around 192 (source EVO mag). I was disapointed by this, but the reviews describe the new engine as all grown-up and they say the torque can really pull you out of a jam.

[NicFromLA]

It's funny, from the comments you'd think the voting would be a little bit closer.

[Ferrer]

The previous JCW had around 207hp, the new one is around 192 (source EVO mag). I was disapointed by this, but the reviews describe the new engine as all grown-up and they say the torque can really pull you out of a jam.

The new, new one has 212bhp apparently.

MINI Cooper S Clubman JCW - Ultimatecarpage.com - Images, Specifications and Information

[NicFromLA]

The new, new one has 212bhp apparently.

MINI Cooper S Clubman JCW - Ultimatecarpage.com - Images, Specifications and Information

EVO lied to me. I will never trust Metcalf again.