Is BMW "THE" premium small sedan.

[IBrake4Rainbows]

Not every FWD vehicle has a transmission tunnel. Look at vehicles like the Honda Jazz for instance.

for example

[Kitdy]

judging by the popularity of the 3-Series, I think a lot of buyers agree.

Judging by the popularity of the 3-Series, there are a lot of middle class wanna be upper class people that are not enthusiasts and perceive the BMW as being high quality and will pay a premium for the name plate and performance even though they don't really need it or care.

That's how I see it.

[Clivey]

Not every FWD vehicle has a transmission tunnel. Look at vehicles like the Honda Jazz for instance.

for example

That's why I used the words "almost all"

I have noticed that it tends to be the "upright" shape vehicles that don't have a tunnel, probably because it's just that the floor is above it, rather than there simply not being one.

Judging by the popularity of the 3-Series, there are a lot of middle class wanna be upper class people that are not enthusiasts and perceive the BMW as being high quality and will pay a premium for the name plate and performance even though they don't really need it or care.

That's how I see it.

You're right, but there are still the genuine enthusiasts that buy them for the "right" reasons. As I've said before, I want a 1-series 3-door/3-series coupé but don't want the image that goes with them. I coudn't care less about what badge is on it. It could be a Ford and I'd still want it because they are very good cars.

[henk4]

That's why I used the words "almost all"

I have noticed that it tends to be the "upright" shape vehicles that don't have a tunnel, probably because it's just that the floor is above it, rather than there simply not being one.



You're right, but there are still the genuine enthusiasts that buy them for the "right" reasons. As I've said before, I want a 1-series 3-door/3-series coupé but don't want the image that goes with them. I coudn't care less about what badge is on it. It could be a Ford and I'd still want it because they are very good cars.

I think what you call a tunnel would be called a "console" by others. The "tunnel" in my C5 miraculously stops with the front seat, leaving a flat rear passenger floor.....

[Kitdy]

You're right, but there are still the genuine enthusiasts that buy them for the "right" reasons. As I've said before, I want a 1-series 3-door/3-series coupé but don't want the image that goes with them. I coudn't care less about what badge is on it. It could be a Ford and I'd still want it because they are very good cars.

Well, you are one of the enlightened few that understand - I think I'm the same way as well.

As for this tunnel business, I think our Mark IV Golf has a bump in the rear middle seat.

I don't know for sure as I am rarely there.

[Clivey]

I think what you call a tunnel would be called a "console" by others. The "tunnel" in my C5 miraculously stops with the front seat, leaving a flat rear passenger floor.....

You mean the area where the gearstick comes out of? It depends. On some cars, like mine, it is part of the tunnel that extends behind the front seats. if this is the case, I call it the "tunnel". In your car, yes, I would call it the "console". Hope that makes sense!!!

But back to the point: Cars like mine still have the "tunnel" running down the centre of the car and dividing the footwells in both the front and rear, even though they aren't RWD. Therefore FWD does not automatically have the advantage of not having to have this tunnel.

[clutch-monkey]

Well if you don't have rear wheel drive in your sports saloon, what's the point?

I drive a base diesel bimmer and trust me you can tell the difference.

that's exactly the issue. 3 series aren't really sporty at all across most of the range, so why bother with RWD at all?

[Clivey]

that's exactly the issue. 3 series aren't really sporty at all across most of the range, so why bother with RWD at all?

Compared to what's available in Australia, maybe...but compared to what else is available in Europe, the 3-Series IS a sporty saloon at the forefront of championing the RWD advantage.

What I'd like in Europe is a greater selection of "normal" RWD cars (rivals to BMWs), which is why I can't wait for the Infiniti brand to be launched here. Evo reviewed the G37S ( Infiniti G37S | evo Car Reviews | Car Reviews | evo ) and seemed to like it.

Also, I've repeatedly said this, but Alfa's rumoured RWD 159 successor sounds extremely promising.

[Ferrer]

No the advantage is space. Front engined, rear wheel drive cars require a transmission tunnel, which takes away interior space. The rear differential is detrimental to the boot space. For a practical car, front wheel drive is the way to go.

What if you like to drive but you need practicality and can only afford one car?

that's exactly the issue. 3 series aren't really sporty at all across most of the range, so why bother with RWD at all?

Even the most basic 318i offers a driving experience that all of their front or four wheel drive rivals can't really match. It's not about the speed, it's about the feel. In my opinion that qualifies it as a sports saloon.

[IBrake4Rainbows]

By just being RWD does not make it a sports car.

Just ask Smart.

[Clivey]

By just being RWD does not make it a sports car.

Just ask Smart.

I'm of the same opinion as Albert, and trust me: We know this. What we're meaning is just that the average BMW is much more of a driving enthusiasts' car than many of its' rivals.

For example: Compare the 3-series with the Jaguar X-Type. Enough said.

[IBrake4Rainbows]

I'm not saying the 3 series isn't sporty. God, I used to own one and my parents currently do, I do know this.

I just think it's a faulty premise to say that a RWD car will do a better job of being a sportscar than another iteration.

BMW prides itself on this "enthusiast" branding - and more power to them if they sell more vehicles to the Sheeple who are never going to use the sporting prowess of their vehicle but can if they want to.

But comparisons between the Audi RS4 & the BMW M3, for instance, have generally given the nod to the RS4.

And yes, I am aware that the 4WD system on the Audi is rear-wheel biased

[Clivey]

I
But comparisons between the Audi RS4 & the BMW M3, for instance, have generally given the nod to the RS4.

Really? What've you been reading/watching? TBH I'd been given a different impression.

Wait: Which M3 are we talking about here: E46 or E92?

[NSXType-R]

i don't really think BMW has it all their own way, on paper at least (where badge doesn't come into play..).
any 3 series apart from the 330 - M3 is pretty much out done by a honda accord euro (TSX?), subaru liberty, etc etc. sure, you don't get RWD in those, but it's not exactly a deal breaker over a base 3 series..
1 series is intriguing but not the best looking, like every other BMW series lol.
as for the 5 series - well, i'll just save the money and get a commodore SS honestly. hell, or a HSV/FPV and i'd still have change.

I forgot about the Australians and Subaru. Yeah, they count too. I'm not so sure about the TSX, because it really has no powerful engine choices. The new TL Type S is supposed to have SH-AWD, but we'll see how that comes out in the future.

my Infiniti G35 eats BMW 3 series for breakfast!!!!!!!!

that being said, i still love the 3 series but they're small and expensive but you get an amazing product. i raced a TL the other day and it did beat me but only in driving skill, i clearly had the faster car. RWD is king

You sure it's your car?

[IBrake4Rainbows]

Really? What've you been reading/watching? TBH I'd been given a different impression.

Wait: Which M3 are we talking about here: E46 or E92?

Many Current Comparisons between vehicles (which, I assume, would be the E92 or indeed E90 variant) give it to the Audi because while the BMW may have the slightly more pure driving experience, something has been lost in translation from screamer Straight 6 to what has been described as an engine not entirely suited to the character of the vehicle.

And by that I presume they mean it can actually cruise in relative comfort. either way, not a horrible thing

The Audi gives the assured road holding that many consumers demand, still performs 9/10ths of the driving fun, and isn't lugged with having to carry around the stigma of the M badge - both a blessing & a curse.