NASCAR Driving Techniques Exposed

[cmcpokey]

i really don't give a shit.

the availability of trackdays and hill climbs is next to non-existant. ive been here in monterey for a month. the first trackday at lagiuna seca is at the end pf november. and there arent very many circuits in the US anyway. hill climbs are very rare indeed. i only know of a few in the country. autox is the really bastion of amateur racers in the states.

there is actually one tomorrow, but i have too much homework to do. sucks to be back in school. (also saving for closing costs on the house, so money is being tightly watched by the missus.)

[clutch-monkey]

the availability of trackdays and hill climbs is next to non-existant. ive been here in monterey for a month. the first trackday at lagiuna seca is at the end pf november. and there arent very many circuits in the US anyway. hill climbs are very rare indeed. i only know of a few in the country. autox is the really bastion of amateur racers in the states.

there is actually one tomorrow, but i have too much homework to do. sucks to be back in school. (also saving for closing costs on the house, so money is being tightly watched by the missus.)

i can imagine laguna seca being booked out constantly..
autoX is still good fun but... i just don't like it. i don't know why; probably because it feels too restricted, although it's easy to set up pretty much anywhere
as an example places like the Gatton sprints simply block off several minor roads and run a road course for a day rather than depend on auto. obviosuly takes a bit more organising

the post you quoted is because when it comes to preferences i really don't care if oval racing is the hardest, because i don't want to do it and watching is immensely boring (just fast foward to the last two laps? lol)

[cmcpokey]

i know... just quoted your last one. too lazy to scroll up. the idea of closing off local roads is awesome, but with the legal climate in the states that is very difficult to do. the roadclimbs i have heard of (mostly in PA, Quiggs) are done on public roads closed off for the day.

oval racing is hard, yes, but very different from every other sort of racinig. just like drag racing is difficult. i couldnt be bothered to drive in a circle though.

[clutch-monkey]

i know... just quoted your last one. too lazy to scroll up. the idea of closing off local roads is awesome, but with the legal climate in the states that is very difficult to do. the roadclimbs i have heard of (mostly in PA, Quiggs) are done on public roads closed off for the day.

on something like a tarmac rally it is very very hard and costly to enter, i like the gatton ones (i'll put up pics when i get home) because it's only short and thus only have to liase with one town council.
still way more work than autoX, but if you have the officials there for an AutoX anyway...

[cmcpokey]

on something like a tarmac rally it is very very hard and costly to enter, i like the gatton ones (i'll put up pics when i get home) because it's only short and thus only have to liase with one town council.
still way more work than autoX, but if you have the officials there for an AutoX anyway...

thinking more about it, one of the major benefits of an autox is that it is really hard to destroy your car. its generally wide open spaces like runways or parking lots with no obstacles. i.e. nothing to run into. so the potential price is some worn out tires, or an overheating engine if you dont let it cool down between runs. running a road rally style, you have to worry about missing an apex and running headfirst into a tree. or engine first in your case.

[clutch-monkey]

thinking more about it, one of the major benefits of an autox is that it is really hard to destroy your car. its generally wide open spaces like runways or parking lots with no obstacles. i.e. nothing to run into. so the potential price is some worn out tires, or an overheating engine if you dont let it cool down between runs.

yeah, that is definately true, i mean you might hit some cones that's it lol
i think it's still a lot of stress on your car, though (although when they make it a skidpan it's worth it!)

running a road rally style, you have to worry about missing an apex and running headfirst into a tree. or engine first in your case.

lol
yes definately, most times you never push it as hard as you would on a circuit - but the kind of street sprints i'm talking about, have the plastic barriers put up which helps lessen any impacts. iirc the course is only 1 km, if that.

[cmcpokey]

yeah, that is definately true, i mean you might hit some cones that's it lol
i think it's still a lot of stress on your car, though (although when they make it a skidpan it's worth it!)

lol
yes definately, most times you never push it as hard as you would on a circuit - but the kind of street sprints i'm talking about, have the plastic barriers put up which helps lessen any impacts. iirc the course is only 1 km, if that.

never hit a cone. ive done lots of autoxing in the mini, and have touched a few, but never gotten docked for it. the stress on the car is significant, and it will wreck a less than perfect set of tires. one of these days i'll get the G35 out there and kill the tires I have on my car right now. although the donuts havent helped them out much.

most SCCA regions dont have the resources or the money to provide the protective barriers like youre talking about. i wish, id be there in a heartbeat. i havent been out with this region yet, i woudl expect with the motorsport culture in the area, they may have the money and supplies.

edit: Mini wont cover an issue discovered on autoxed cars where the strut mounts will mushroom. they have trained their technicians to notice it and wont cover suspension work if it needs it.

[kingofthering]

most SCCA regions dont have the resources or the money to provide the protective barriers like youre talking about. i wish, id be there in a heartbeat. i havent been out with this region yet, i woudl expect with the motorsport culture in the area, they may have the money and supplies.

edit: Mini wont cover an issue discovered on autoxed cars where the strut mounts will mushroom. they have trained their technicians to notice it and wont cover suspension work if it needs it.

Oh yeah, the SCCA region here is well funded enough to have a booth at the local auto show and their own newspaper. I don't think you'll need to worry about them being inadequately equipped.

As for the mushrooming, there's a guy in the Bay Area that could fix it for sub-1k by knocking them flat and installing a brace.

[Daz27]

Silly prick missed the brake pedal...

[Kitdy]

Funny, oval is the hardest of the bunch.

Is it really? I think that is highly up for debate.

[culver]

Is it really? I think that is highly up for debate.

But how many people do you know who could actually offer a valid opinion? I know a race engineer/ chassis designer who has worked in racing for almost 40 years. In that time he has worked with classes ranging from FV to Indy. His shop has done parts for cars ranging from oval stockers to F1. I asked his opinion on the subject.

From an engineering setup point of view he feels that ovals with relatively tight corners are the hardest tracks to engineer/setup for. The track simply is unforgiving of any setup mistakes and no mater how brilliant the driver, you can't hustle a poorly set up car around an oval. A great driver can get a poorly set up car to perform OK on a road course but not on an oval. Ovals are truly about conservation of momentum. If you lose speed it might take one or two full laps to regain the lost speed. With a road course a mistake in turn one has no affect on your speed just a few turns later. That allows the track to be considered as independent sections. Ovals do not allow this thus they are far less forgiving of mistakes or momentary lapses.

None of this says that he thinks ovals are more fun as an engineer or driver (he used to drive back in the 1970s), only that as an engineer and to some degree a driving coach, ovals prove are harder to master.

I figure the reasoned opinion of an expert was good enough for me.

[Kitdy]

I figure the reasoned opinion of an expert was good enough for me.

While not definitive, you do raise some good points. The momentum bit I find quite interesting in particular. However, this is only one person's experience with racing and he may not be right. No less, ovals may well be harder - as an aside, I always had trouble with them in Forza.

[culver]

BTW, I for the most part think circuits are more fun to drive (based on my limited oval driving). I find some ovals great to watch (Indy) and others just dull as dry paint (Atlanta).

[cmcpokey]

Oh yeah, the SCCA region here is well funded enough to have a booth at the local auto show and their own newspaper. I don't think you'll need to worry about them being inadequately equipped.

As for the mushrooming, there's a guy in the Bay Area that could fix it for sub-1k by knocking them flat and installing a brace.

thats good to hear. where at you at? maybe we coudl autox at marina together.

the mini is gone, and mine didnt seem to have that going on. so no harm done to me or my wallet.

[kingofthering]

thats good to hear. where at you at? maybe we coudl autox at marina together.

I have no time to even get the damn permit.

But autocross... I plan to do that someday. Maybe I'll even school you.