Israel

[teatako]

is a terrorist state that not only deserves widespread international condemnation, but military retaliation for its despicable actions. Of course, that´s never going to happen as Tel Aviv has proved a valuable ally to the US and Europe in the predominantly Arab Middle East.

have a link:
Then discuss.

Edit: It wouldn´t make a difference if the state in question was Aymara or Sikh or whatever. And my opinion on Israel does not make me hate Jews or whatever. Many of them share my views.

[wwgkd]

I actually support Israel, usually. They're in a tough situation, and they may not always respond in the best possible manner, but remember that their neighbors are dedicated to their destruction. Plus, during their "truces" they were bombarded by missiles and mortars every day, and the people who are doing it have said repeatedly (and I believe them) that they won't stop until israel is gone. How would you respond in that situation? Have a sing-in?

[Matra et Alpine]

3 1/2 tons of medical aid were being taken in by a boat from Cyprus.
BBC NEWS | World | Middle East | 'Rammed' aid boat arrives at port
Funny about the furore when Saddam was blocking medical aid for his people.

Not heard very much about this
The root cause of these issues is the duplicitious nature of the governments involved !!

[LeonOfTheDead]

I usually think Israel overreact to Palestine.
By saying that, I don't support Palestine or the way some people from Palestine act against Israel.
I think they are both guilty, since one day is Palestine to launch rockets over Israelites' houses, and the next day is Israel bombarding Palestine in the same way. The difference is that on one side there is an official army, and on the other one there is an armed group of people, so different means, same approach.

Sometimes I found myself thinking that Israel is somehow playing the "holocaust" card, like if they are still the persecuted ones, while it's not true at all.
I mean, I have nothing against Jews, just saying that sometimes it seems, to my poor eyes, that they are acting like if they still were the thirties/forties.

at the same time terrorists from Palestine are acting in a completely uncontrollable way, trying to conquer a land they were robbed like 40 years ago, but without using diplomacy or trying to present their point of view in a merely sensed way, just attacking blindly even the innocent population.

Watching the news, I happened to see fools at both sides, colons pretending they have the right to live in the Gaza territory (which was supposed to be neutral), or Palestinians pretending Israel attacked them without a reason.

I can see both of them having so much faults, and perhaps even some rights.
the point is the aren't talking, listening, or even caring about the other one.
both of them seems to have just one interest, defeat the other one no matter what.
just my personal opinion.

[wwgkd]

I usually think Israel overreact to Palestine.
By saying that, I don't support Palestine or the way some people from Palestine act against Israel.
I think they are both guilty, since one day is Palestine to launch rockets over Israelites' houses, and the next day is Israel bombarding Palestine in the same way. The difference is that on one side there is an official army, and on the other one there is an armed group of people, so different means, same approach.

Sometimes I found myself thinking that Israel is somehow playing the "holocaust" card, like if they are still the persecuted ones, while it's not true at all.
I mean, I have nothing against Jews, just saying that sometimes it seems, to my poor eyes, that they are acting like if they still were the thirties/forties.

at the same time terrorists from Palestine are acting in a completely uncontrollable way, trying to conquer a land they were robbed like 40 years ago, but without using diplomacy or trying to present their point of view in a merely sensed way, just attacking blindly even the innocent population.

Watching the news, I happened to see fools at both sides, colons pretending they have the right to live in the Gaza territory (which was supposed to be neutral), or Palestinians pretending Israel attacked them without a reason.

I can see both of them having so much faults, and perhaps even some rights.
the point is the aren't talking, listening, or even caring about the other one.
both of them seems to have just one interest, defeat the other one no matter what.
just my personal opinion.

I generally agree with that, actually, even though I tend to defend israel I don't always defend or like the things they do. I do sympathize with the palestinians, though, but to a much lesser extent. Often when they are offered jobs (such as the plan to build the stadium) they don't do anything. With the staduim, there were jobs and money just waiting, but despite rampant unemployment they couldn't get enough people to work on it so they gave up.

Edit: I was trying to find the link to the article I saw that covered the clash between palistinians and Egypt where the Egyptian soldiers fired into the palestinian crowd and one Eqyptian soldier was shot. Any thoughts there?

[Pando]

Anyone interested in the subject should try to get their hands on a documentary called Occupation 101 it is very powerful and enlightening although especially made for North American viewers.

IMDB - Occupation 101

[Pando]

Personally I used to be quite pro-Israel and thinking supporting Palestine was only for hippies and vegetarians. But as I have a huge thirst for knowledge - especially when it comes to history I had to dig in a bit deeper - and the more I learned the more my view on the situation changed.

Today, I'm with teatako on this one.

[ruim20]

I'm with Teatako as well

It's kind of ironic really, how a people can become what they most feared.

I understand the necessity to defend themselfs, but a full scale assault is plain massacre, i'm not even going to discuss what they are defending, it probably wasn't their territory to start with. Palistine almost doesn't exist as a country, they have no ideia on how to control thoose small groups that undergo with the ocasional rocket attacks and suicide bombings, i'm sure that there might be other solutions than the complete destruction of Palestine.

[wwgkd]

I'm with Teatako as well

It's kind of ironic really, how a people can become what they most feared.

I understand the necessity to defend themselfs, but a full scale assault is plain massacre, i'm not even going to discuss what they are defending, it probably wasn't their territory to start with. Palistine almost doesn't exist as a country, they have no ideia on how to control thoose small groups that undergo with the ocasional rocket attacks and suicide bombings, i'm sure that there might be other solutions than the complete destruction of Palestine.

Well, saying that the are disorganized and can't control it isn't really valid when the ruling government is actually encouraging the rockets and suicide bombing. I'm not saying that this caompaign might not be overkill, but at least they are trying to target Hamas, rather than intentionally hitting civillians like Hamas does.

[CdocZ]

It would just be nice if 1. all the countries that told the Palestinian people they would be given a land of their own, would. On that note, considering they definitely are the overwhelming majority in certain areas of land that they be given that land. No more prevention of giving Palestinians citizenship for whatever reason, let them have a land of their own. I am a strong believer in every division of people having a land to call their own that can defend them - that is a lesson that all can take from the Holocaust. However, I see no reason why it cannot be applied to the Palestinians too, and it is about time that it happen; Yassir Arafat's decline to split the land back in the late 40's is something that happened a long time ago.

2. A matter of both sides being absolutely stupid. Israel reacts to each attack like it could have wiped out a whole neighborhood, and on the other side even while cease fires are accepted, rockets are fired at more than one Israeli town multiple times a day, which I hardly call a cease fire. What this situation needs seems more like what America and the USSR needed to do to end the Cold War (before the USSR fell apart on its own). Both sides need to take a cold shower and a second to re-orient themselves. The Israeli's need to realize these are not the same times when all of their neighbors were all hell-broken on annihilating them. The Palestinian terrorist cells need to realize that in fact many (perhaps even the majority?) Israelis are against the fighting. I am not saying for an instant true cease fire, but take a second, look at the situation, and steadily both sides will dial things back.

3. A fatal flaw in modern politics. The saying "We will not negotiate with terrorists". Considering many political, if violent, groups are now major players in the domestic policy of many countries, it would be wise to rethink this. Many of the older, more conservative(/corrupt) Israeli government officials love the idea of simply ignoring "terrorist demands" but in this case I think it would not only be foolish to ignore them but rude and somewhat hypocritical. The Jews, with the Arabs generous support, committed many similar sorts of actions against the British before they were given a state. These were mostly targeted at governmental and military buildings, something I think the Palestinians should focus on more. More so, these actions did help; something that would likely work with the Palestinian-Israeli situation too, especially in terms of how groups like Hamas are viewed by the rest of the world (particularly by the people they want to negotiate with). The Israeli nation, and many other western nations, can no longer afford to rule off such requests from terrorist groups. They are violent, yes, but I doubt that is a logical reason to simply ignore what is often a completely realistic and plausible move towards a solution that can work for all sides involved.

I am not, like usual, going to leave an essay-like conclusion at the end of this, but I will point out one thing; my views on Israel are not unheard of. In fact they are quite common among my generation of American and Israeli Jews of my generation, and even the one before mine (any previous generations I know less about personally, and have mostly relied on what I have heard/seen in newspapers and other things). There is hope for both sides; I have seen that many groups in Israel want the fighting to stop, and many of the Palestinians are included. There is hope, as long as a large portion of people on all sides want similar things, which does seem to be the case. We just have to hope that they get their chance to make a change, too.

[Matra et Alpine]

BBC NEWS | World | Middle East | Aid worker diary: Part three a view from inside

Isreal have been using massive munitions on teh Gaza.
So any idea that they are "targetting" just isn't tenable
There is a need for "appropriate force and actions" to be taken.
Attacks by a well stocked army/air force against a rag-tag bunch of poorly organised terrorists hiding amongst a population who have noe littel hope seems a little inappropriate adn not very "civilised".

[nota]

As far as Israeli outrages go, well here we go .. again

Like you guys I've been watching this 'stuff' go on and on and on - all my life. I can't bear looking at the TV coverage anymore. Particularly depressing and oh so arch-typical is Israel's latest whiz-bang propoganda highlights with the 'pinpoint' USA-style 'Shock & Awe' military footage of missiles raining down on hapless individuals. Its too upsetting I have to turn away.

I'm descended from Jewry but you wouldn't catch me supporting these fascist goons, or their shitbox country. Not in a pink fit

[Zytek_Fan]

What needs to happen is military intervention, but it never will as long as Israel is the US's puppet.

[f6fhellcat13]

I don't beleive it is as much a problem with Israelis as it is with their government and other leadership, which, as usual, is inept.

fascist goons

All the citizenry of Israel are allowed to carry firearms because they have all been in the military, but only the most crazed conservative(major understatement) people actually carry them. A few years ago, an Israeli was walking around with his gun and a Palestinian ripped the gun from its holster and shot the owner.
It was darkly humorous.

[CdocZ]

About many Israeli's not carrying weapons except the conservatives, that is not really true. A rather large number carry sidearms with them regularly, and it is not at all limited to "conservatives", or any other political denomination of the people. Many of those on active duty carry their full size rifles with them in public, and many on the inactive rosters still carry their pistols often out of habit and sometimes out of a desire for protection.

As for Hellcats mentioning the government's ineptitude.....it really is a shame, outside of the political situation it really lovely place. But I also have grown quite jaded when told about how corrupt and stupid the American government can be, in comparison to the Israeli government. It is very saddening to remember every time I think about going back to Israel, that I have to think about what beach has perhaps been sold off, what area is now dangerous because of another irrelevant "solution" of political bickering or what illegal set of actions the top people in government have committed. It is a truly embarrassing feature, for such a beautiful country.