Israel

[f6fhellcat13]

About many Israeli's not carrying weapons except the conservatives, that is not really true. A rather large number carry sidearms with them regularly, and it is not at all limited to "conservatives", or any other political denomination of the people. Many of those on active duty carry their full size rifles with them in public, and many on the inactive rosters still carry their pistols often out of habit and sometimes out of a desire for protection.

Soldiers carrying weapons is one thing, the civilians carrying them around is another.
(I don't want to start another gun debate.)
From my experience, when I visited two years ago, it was the conservative fringe who wre carrying weapons on them.

As for Hellcats mentioning the government's ineptitude.....it really is a shame, outside of the political situation it really lovely place. But I also have grown quite jaded when told about how corrupt and stupid the American government can be, in comparison to the Israeli government. It is very saddening to remember every time I think about going back to Israel, that I have to think about what beach has perhaps been sold off, what area is now dangerous because of another irrelevant "solution" of political bickering or what illegal set of actions the top people in government have committed. It is a truly embarrassing feature, for such a beautiful country.

Yes.

[roosterjuicer]

I wonder if the same anti-israeli rhetoric would be flying around if Israel was not a US ally?

[digitalcraft]

I wonder if the same anti-israeli rhetoric would be flying around if Israel was not a US ally?

As long as they were shelling and blocking aide yeah, I'd say so.

[clutch-monkey]

no need to just single out israel.... the palestinians are as much to blame imo. how are you supposed to deal with someone who won't accept anything?

[Matra et Alpine]

clutch, it's worth considering what they HAVE accepted
Perhaps if land grabbing had actually stopped they'd settle down a little ???
Personally I think Israel hard liners have escalated this to get a major act in before Obama takes over as nobody seems to be certain as to what he'll do !!

[clutch-monkey]

yeah, i know israel was doing massive land grabs whilst building that wall, but i remember some summit when they offered to withdraw to the 1948 borders or something, and the palestinians flat out refused. that pissed me off, they just don't WANT peace. maybe they'll kill each other off.

[2ndclasscitizen]

The Palestinian people does not exist. The creation of a Palestinian state is only a means for continuing our struggle against the state of Israel for our Arab unity. In reality today there is no difference between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. Only for political and tactical reasons do we speak today about the existence of a Palestinian people, since Arab national interests demand that we posit the existence of a distinct "Palestinian people" to oppose Zionism.

For tactical reasons, Jordan, which is a sovereign state with defined borders, cannot raise claims to Haifa and Jaffa, while as a Palestinian, I can undoubtedly demand Haifa, Jaffa, Beer-Sheva and Jerusalem. However, the moment we reclaim our right to all of Palestine, we will not wait even a minute to unite Palestine and Jordan.

Palestine Liberation Organization executive committee member Zahir Muhsein (1977).

[f6fhellcat13]

Thanks for the perspective, 2ndCC.

[Matra et Alpine]

But perhaps taken out of context to affect "balance" ??
Muhsein's views contravened the PLO charter, which affirms the existence of a Palestinian people with national rights, it was in line with al-Sa'iqa's Syrian-Baathist ideology.
He was leader of the Syria-controlled as-Sa'iqa faction of the PLO and in the Jordanian wing of the Ba'th party.

SO ... no great surprise HE woudl see the Jordanian expansions with Palestine connection as it ensure he stays centre of the organsiation So his comments asre much more self-serving than actually about a Palestine for Palestinians.

clutch, lots was happeneing around that time. Can you be more specific ?
The UN did propose partition of what was then Palestine with about 32% of the population, the Jews would get 56% of the territory. So they objected !! It's all much more complex than a simple debate/anbalysis woudl reach.
Just adding my ususal 2c of balance

[IBrake4Rainbows]

Palestinian hardliners should stop firing rockets into Israel.

Israel should stop firing rockets at residential areas - even if the building also holds some form or HAMAS element.

Of course, it's never going to happen when you have two polarised elements who are so adamant that they are in the right - with no black & white.

[Zytek_Fan]

Palestinian hardliners should stop firing rockets into Israel.

Israel should stop firing rockets at residential areas - even if the building also holds some form or HAMAS element.

Of course, it's never going to happen when you have two polarised elements who are so adamant that they are in the right - with no black & white.

I wholeheartedly agree.

[Zytek_Fan]

Israel adds troops to Gaza border - Israel-Palestinians- msnbc.com

Hmmm, I guess Israel wants to overrun Gaza.



edit: I wonder how long the conflict is ignored before intervention occurs...

[IBrake4Rainbows]

It's not being ignored, not in the slightest.

This is a case of the United States & the UN being caught in a hard place. Because the UN would no doubt want to ensure the rights of citizens in the Gaza strip aren't going to be overrun, but Israel has always been seen as a special case, by nearly every western nation.

If I'm being honest I can't see how a Military push from external forces in favour of either side could end well.

This conflict will only ever end when either the two sides acknowledge each others right to exist or one of them ceases to exist. My guess? the latter will happen, and sooner than we think.