Which GT car is better? Ferrari Fiorano 599 or Aston Martin DBS?

[Ferrer]

What many people aknowledge is that Ferrari is the center of the of the automotive world. The old cars command the highest prices and the new cars have the longest waiting lists and the best resale value. By the way, this isn't by accident either; Ferrari the man as well as the people whom he hired and the people who work at Ferrari today have had, since the 1930s, the deepest commitment to building a quality product. Quality in both race and road cars, and quality in terms of performance, styling, reliability and even safety. The result is that a lot of people attempt to use the image of the brand to identify themselves as wealthy, passionate and part of a 'winning team.' However, I still believe many people love the cars and the company solely because they just love great cars.

True. And I drive a BMW so I shouldn't be care about image at all.

Two things are preventing me from doing it though. First, Ferraris have a way worse image than BMWs and secondly at Ferrari's price point there's so much choice.

I've never been a Ferrari man, altough I acknowledge them as excellent cars and I wouldn't mind one.

[wwgkd]

F430 Scuderia?

This.

True. And I drive a BMW so I shouldn't be care about image at all.

Two things are preventing me from doing it though. First, Ferraris have a way worse image than BMWs and secondly at Ferrari's price point there's so much choice.

I've never been a Ferrari man, altough I acknowledge them as excellent cars and I wouldn't mind one.

Actually, over here (I used to live near Bellevue washington so maybe I got more of this than most of the US) BMW's really don't have any better of a reputation. I don't really like the ferrari reputation, and I could care less about exclusivity, resale, etc. It comes down to the fact that ferrari has made some truly special cars over the years with more soul in the steering wheel than most cars ever achieve in their entirety.

As to this question, I'm not a huge fan of the looks of the 599. It's not ugly, but it's not one of the best looking cars ever. The DBS looks great, though, and reportedly sounds just as good. However pretty much everyone agrees that the 599 drives quite a bit better, so I have to go with the 599 here.

[Kitdy]

Concerning retail, I remember BMW ads saying they had great or best-in-class resasle and I recently saw a Toyota ad advertising that they had hte best resale value of any full-line brand.

Interesting.

Also - don't not drive a car becasue of image. If it's good, drive it no matter if it's Toyota or Ferrari and don't take crap from anyone.

[LTSmash]

What many people aknowledge is that Ferrari is the center of the of the automotive world. The old cars command the highest prices and the new cars have the longest waiting lists and the best resale value. By the way, this isn't by accident either; Ferrari the man as well as the people whom he hired and the people who work at Ferrari today have had, since the 1930s, the deepest commitment to building a quality product. Quality in both race and road cars, and quality in terms of performance, styling, reliability and even safety. The result is that a lot of people attempt to use the image of the brand to identify themselves as wealthy, passionate and part of a 'winning team.' However, I still believe many people love the cars and the company solely because they just love great cars.

A man who truly loves Ferrari will buy a an older one and not give a damn what anyone thinks because he's got what he wants, not what he thinks others want him to have... go buy a 355. Today's Ferrari lineup is overrated anyway.

True. And I drive a BMW so I shouldn't be care about image at all.

I would shake your hand for such bravery, but I can't do it in person. This will do.

[LeonOfTheDead]

The probem I think doesn't lie in the badge itself, but rather in what has Ferrai come to mean these days.

tbh, I don't think Ferrari image changed that much recently, the big change imo happened with the introduction of cars like the 365BB and the 308, then they just evolved.
what changed, imo, is how people look at/judge Ferrari, as if we were demanding for something else, even if what they offer is what the market asked.

A man who truly loves Ferrari will buy a an older one and not give a damn what anyone thinks because he's got what he wants, not what he thinks others want him to have... go buy a 355. Today's Ferrari lineup is overrated anyway.

I would like to know why it's overrated.
I don't like the F430 styling, and probably it's not my kind of car too. That apply also to a Gallardo for example. probably I wold buy a 599 too, because it's pretty huge and not very classy. I love the 612, but it's going after neing replaced, so I wouldn't buy a Ferrari at all in the end. Still I recognize the 430 as one of the best performer considering all its specs and characteristics, the 599 is as fast as some more extreme competitors while still being comfy and refined enough, and the 612 is unique, without a real competitor now that even the Vanquish is gone.
seriously, what's wrong with Ferrari?
the gearbox? they are not the only one to offer it, and the market want it.
not fast enough? I doubt.
the manettino? it's not that much different from other devices offered by other automakers, it's just the most famous and that with an Italian name.
Not good looking enough? even if it's something personal, tell em a Lamborghini, both of them, is good looking then, not cool, or awesome, or insane, just good looking. maybe the DB9, but we are all getting tired of AM family feeling (af it was Audi...), even myself and I love AM.

even saying older Ferraris were better, I could say so of all the other brands.
If the Countach was as astonishing and ground breaking as it really was, than both the Diablo and the Murcielago (and basically the Gallardo too) are just iteration of that theme.
What about Jaguar? the XK is a beatiful car, but it's just the shadow of the E-Type in the DB7's cloth.
and so on, without trying to make a list of all the automakers trying to revamp their old best selling cars giving those styles to their modern products.

but it's a problem related to the automakers, or to the market?
I doubt they purposedly decided to change a winning formula, an in such a case, we were free to say no, buying something else (it isn't that the market changed in a snap). We asked for a change that we are still happy with, selling figures can't lie.
so what is all this complaining about modern car? I'm guilty too, so m question is genuine.
is it just our will to complain forever and ever, just as a revenge we are not those who can design or buy, or is it that we have really something, even if just in our humble opinion, to say, to add to the car or even to the whole brand (regardless of which)?

I would like to say is the later, in which case, I also would like to discus about that, as often as possible, every time someone has something to say.

I didn't mean to be harsh or something.

[Rockefella]

Edited the title because it annoyed me.

[wwgkd]

Edited the title because it annoyed me.

Thank you.



Well said Leon.

[LTSmash]

I would like to know why it's overrated.
I don't like the F430 styling, and probably it's not my kind of car too. That apply also to a Gallardo for example. probably I wold buy a 599 too, because it's pretty huge and not very classy. I love the 612, but it's going after neing replaced, so I wouldn't buy a Ferrari at all in the end. Still I recognize the 430 as one of the best performer considering all its specs and characteristics, the 599 is as fast as some more extreme competitors while still being comfy and refined enough, and the 612 is unique, without a real competitor now that even the Vanquish is gone.
seriously, what's wrong with Ferrari?
the gearbox? they are not the only one to offer it, and the market want it.
not fast enough? I doubt.
the manettino? it's not that much different from other devices offered by other automakers, it's just the most famous and that with an Italian name.
Not good looking enough? even if it's something personal, tell em a Lamborghini, both of them, is good looking then, not cool, or awesome, or insane, just good looking. maybe the DB9, but we are all getting tired of AM family feeling (af it was Audi...), even myself and I love AM.

even saying older Ferraris were better, I could say so of all the other brands.
If the Countach was as astonishing and ground breaking as it really was, than both the Diablo and the Murcielago (and basically the Gallardo too) are just iteration of that theme.
What about Jaguar? the XK is a beatiful car, but it's just the shadow of the E-Type in the DB7's cloth.
and so on, without trying to make a list of all the automakers trying to revamp their old best selling cars giving those styles to their modern products.

but it's a problem related to the automakers, or to the market?
I doubt they purposedly decided to change a winning formula, an in such a case, we were free to say no, buying something else (it isn't that the market changed in a snap). We asked for a change that we are still happy with, selling figures can't lie.
so what is all this complaining about modern car? I'm guilty too, so m question is genuine.
is it just our will to complain forever and ever, just as a revenge we are not those who can design or buy, or is it that we have really something, even if just in our humble opinion, to say, to add to the car or even to the whole brand (regardless of which)?

I would like to say is the later, in which case, I also would like to discus about that, as often as possible, every time someone has something to say.

I didn't mean to be harsh or something.

No no, not harsh at all. I agree with you. I should have explained myself more. I really don't like the direction Ferrari and most every other upper class car manufacturers are going. It seems as if they are catering more to the average driver than the enthusiasts (which I agree with, it's smart marketing). However, I don't like it at all and I don't want the change.

[Ferrer]

tbh, I don't think Ferrari image changed that much recently, the big change imo happened with the introduction of cars like the 365BB and the 308, then they just evolved.
what changed, imo, is how people look at/judge Ferrari, as if we were demanding for something else, even if what they offer is what the market asked.

I think the change I'm refering too happened much later, in the late 90's when the F1 team started winning everything.

All of a sudden Ferraris became arguably the best cars on the market. They were perfect. And of course they had the pracing horse on the bonnet, so they were bigger than Jesus.

All this has brung to Ferrari a complex of superiority and an arrogance that I find difficult to put up with.

No no, not harsh at all. I agree with you. I should have explained myself more. I really don't like the direction Ferrari and most every other upper class car manufacturers are going. It seems as if they are catering more to the average driver than the enthusiasts (which I agree with, it's smart marketing). However, I don't like it at all and I don't want the change.

As I've said in the past, customers are imbeciles and should be kept away from any engineering decisions.

Having said I think there's an element of sad truth in the fact that the market rules everything. And it's something that we already started discussing in the Toyota thread.

These days people hardly think for themselves (and I know there are exceptions to this), they act as sheep without stopping for a minute to think and reflexionate. They need to be recognised by their peers by acknowledged as winners, because everything that deivates from the norm is despised.

And this certainly translates to the car industry. Every new car has to be bigger, more powerful, with more gadgets and more efficient. And if you dare to be different you're labelled as weird. So that means that sportcars have to have flappy paddle gearboxes, because they are fast and you can drive like a F1 driver; family cars have to be big because we need the space, even if we package cars cleverly we can have plenty of space in a smaller size; and so it goes on.

Don't for a moment think that I'm against progress. Far from it. But what is called progress, is it really progress? I personally doubt so. As Revo said time ago simplicity is the ultimate sophistication and it's shame that this seems to have been completely forgotten by car manufacturers.

I will admit though, that even with these dark view there are some bright spots that make still have faith in the automotive industry. The Pagani Zonda for instance is a brilliant supercar, it combines the best of old and new and it delivers it in a throughly modern and contemporary way. And the Toyota iQ is a brilliant city car that can seat four, but is barely longer than a Smart.

Even with those (and some others), things aren't looking good. And the car industry is just a reflex of the society.

[henk4]

to answer the first question here. I can afford neither car, but if somebody would offer either one I would not start thinking that the other car might be better...I would simply accept.

[wlawson86]

DBS 100%. Looks so much better, sounds better, cheaper, only offered with a 6 speed manual, lighter, and has less complex technology to go wrong. Ferrari stop putting souls in their cars after the 575. Aston Martin still does.

[Ferrer]

DBS 100%. Looks so much better, sounds better, cheaper, only offered with a 6 speed manual, lighter, and has less complex technology to go wrong. Ferrari stop putting souls in their cars after the 575. Aston Martin still does.

An auto has been added recently because some rich arabs wanted it.

[LeonOfTheDead]

DBS 100%. Looks so much better, sounds better, cheaper, only offered with a 6 speed manual, lighter, and has less complex technology to go wrong. Ferrari stop putting souls in their cars after the 575. Aston Martin still does.

can I know why?

[henk4]

the only soul in a car is the person behind the wheel.

[callum122]

From a technical POV, the Ferrari is my choice. Although after looking at other photos of the Ferrari I started to like its styling.